Bae LAB Best Bits! Key Lessons about Entrepreneurship | Compilation Episode

Aamir Hussain: 0:00

Hey guys, welcome to a brand new episode of the BAE Labpodcast. As you can see by the title, this is a compilation episode of lookingat some of the best lessons we could derive from recent episodes, and thoselessons span the whole nature of entrepreneurship, from looking at IPO all theway to building better bridges. As a founder, my name is Aamir Hussain, I'mpart of the BAE HQ team and this episode is powered by HSBC Innovation Banking.Hope you enjoy.

Amardeep Parmar: 0:29

What are some good things to be thinking about here? So whattypes of ethical codes or like concerns that people might not realise that theyshould be thinking about? So what areas should they be looking into?

Dama Sathianathan: 0:40

This is a topic that I love to talk about. It's actuallysomething that we do as part of our programme as well, which is sort ofsessioned around sort of impact risk and the unintended consequences, and wetake it a bit back to sort of the ethics and the philosophy behind technologiesas well, and the first sort of principle that we usually come back to is by achap called Melvin Kranzberg, who wrote up the rules of technology, and one ofthe most pivotal ones that really accentuates why this is important is allabout focusing that technology is neither good nor bad and it's definitely notneutral, and it basically relates to the sort of fallacy that technology isjust a tool, um, but technology is actually neither produced or used in asocial vacuum and it's. It's therefore also no less neutral than the people orsociety that actually produce and use it. So actually being acutely aware ofsort of who gets to build and who gets to decide how to distribute technologiesas well is an important factor in the sort of entire sort of supply chain ofhow you distribute your tech products and services essentially, and if we lookat sort of tech ethics and codes, we used to bring up quite a lot of techethics and principles through the Tech for Good community. So there's quite alarge proportion I think 10 principles or so that we've also published on ourwebsite many millions ago, all the different aspects, from the sort ofprovenance of technologies and how you might think about it to even how youincrease the diversity of the people who actually get to develop thosetechnologies as well. And what do you even do when you work with verymarginalized and underserved communities to sort of ensure that there's notrade-off for them to be able to use X over Y?

Dama Sathianathan : 2:38

Because there have been loads and loads of case studieswhere very novel innovative technology that is largely untested and could bequite harmful has been imposed onto refugees, for example, because they wereliterally in a position where they had no other avenue than the support thatwas already provided.

Dama Sathianathan: 2:59

So facial recognition, biometrics in disaster humanitarianand disaster responses, for example, had a huge impact on and adverse effectson those people as well. So I think, yeah, when it comes to other sort ofethics codes, the sort of principles behind technology are a good shout.There's a friend of mine who teaches who teaches at um one of the ukuniversities around sort of tech ethics as well, and he wrote a really goodblog on around sort of 10 um 10 particular technology rules as well. So that couldsort of serve as a guiding principle or as a which includes sort of thereadings and more research from social technologists like Kenta Harutoyama, whowrote that technology can only amplify existing capacity intent back in 1980and much, much more. So highly recommend and we'll make sure that you caninclude this in your notes.

Amardeep Parmar: 4:03

 Like I said, it's really important because sometimespeople start marketing about really understanding what ways that make them evenstand out right. And once you've got this down, so you've got okay. Youunderstand who you're on target, you understand what makes you stand out tothose people. How do you get that message across effectively? How do you reachthese people?

Uzma Rafiq: 4:21

Definitely this is where everyone thinks you blow all ofyour marketing budget and you end up spending all of your money. Where is itall going? But there's so many effective ways that you can try and test out andsee what works for you from the start. One of, I'll start off with the one thatmight be a little bit more costly, but just because I think SEO you're hearingit more and more knowing the keywords that your company might be utilizing andunderstanding how that can drive organic traffic and visibility for yourcompany is so important. But recently I came across Uber Suggest by Neil Patel,who talks a lot about SEO and has a free trial for keyword research. So,especially if that's something that you've not looked into yet, it could besomething to test out and understand how your business is portrayed, how youwant it to be portrayed and where you rank, how you fit in there as well.

Uzma Rafiq: 5:19

But especially at the start, we know marketing budgets canbe quite limited to founders, so there are things like educational content thatcan definitely be used, and it doesn't need to mean that you'll want to writelong reports every single month. But use your voice and the channels that youhave that are readily available. So things like LinkedIn, slack communitiesthat exist, and build your own kind of database and your own email database, Ithink will be key to be able to understand who's interested. It will definitelyhelp support that profile building, but also ensuring that you're getting yourmessage out there, out there to those that are um within your funnel. Sowhether they are like early stages, just learning about your company, theproduct, the services you offer, or later more towards that conversion side,you can definitely tinker and tailor the messaging that they're receiving. Um,but because it is email, like it, it can be one to kind of test out as well.

Uzma Rafiq: 6:21

And on the side of kind of educational content, there has tobe a value exchange. I think we think it's very easy, like someone will fillout a form, we'll get their details, but you need to make sure, like why isthis compelling enough for someone to want to put their details in and exchangethat? What will I be giving them in return? Making sure that there's key andeasy takeaways from that as well, um, but things that you can definitelyutilize and um and be able to use to promote your organization, your productsand your services. More are things like blogs, articles, um, or even take partin webinars, host any um where you're able to educate potential customers aboutyour product and their industry trends as well.

Amardeep Parmar: 7:04

I said, where they feel like they have to be aggressive,they have to be strong, otherwise the company won't be successful. And if youlook at that from the other perspective right of what is being a compassionateleader, what value does that bring to the organization? So especially forfounders now who are they're setting the culture of their team right, like theway that they are as a leader sets the culture of the entire organization. Whydoes being a compassionate leader mean that they're going to be a better companyand more successful in the long run?

Sumu Sethi: 7:32

So I think, um, in terms of leaders in general, they have alot of pressure on them, right, so we usually have to deliver something or theyhave milestones and goals. So there is a lot of pressure, um, on thatindividual. But it's firstly how, firstly, how you deal with that pressure asan individual and how you try and shield your team, I would say, from thatpressure as well .

Sumu Sethi: 7:58

And I think people can be. I've worked with leaders who havebeen, I would say, borderline scary, because they take a very aggressiveapproach to leadership and the result of that is that people then feel afraidof them and then you can't really bring up any issues that come along withdelivering a certain goal and, you know, expect the unexpected. Nothing goessmoothly. You can plan and plan and plan, and sometimes things don't goaccording to plan. So if you've got quite an aggressive or strong leadershiplike that, then people in the team are then afraid to actually bring up these,these challenges, and actually discuss them, whereas if you have a morecompassionate style, where you create an environment where you talk about howto achieve those goals together not the leader, but the team we're all the sameand create an environment where things can be discussed openly. I think thatleads to better team dynamics, more accountability for each of the team membersand helping to achieve those goals as well.

Amardeep Parmar: 9:16

We hope you're enjoying the episode so far. We just want togive a quick shout out to our headline partners, HSBC Innovation Banking. Oneof the biggest challenges for so many startups is finding the right bank tosupport them, because you might start off and try to use a traditional bank,but they don't understand what you're doing. You're just talking to an AI assistantor you're talking to somebody who doesn't really understand what it is you'vebeen trying to do.

Amardeep Parmar: 9:38

HSBC have got the team they've built out over years to makesure they understand what you're doing. They've got the deep sector expertiseand they can help connect you with the right people to make your dreams cometrue. So they've got the deep sector expertise and they can help connect youwith the right people to make your dreams come true. So if you want to learnmore, check out hsbcinnovationbanking.com.

Amardeep Parmar: 

A lot of founders do make a lot of mistakes when trying tobuild relationships and it can come off as come off as very inauthentic,whether some of the mistakes that people have made with you or you've seenother people make that you think really hinders this, especially from afounder's perspective.

Karen Zhang: 10:11

I would say that the soft skills are the ones. Other thingsare the hardest um to teach and I get this constantly within my role becauseI'm supporting a lot of founders, um and vcs and so naturally I get inundatedwith LinkedIn outreaches of people that just want to go for a coffee chat orwant to book in time with me or just have something really kind of random andobscure, and I want to be nice and I want to, you know, help everyone outthere. But the reality is we have a finite amount of time and for me I find itquite frustrating, to be honest, when I when I've received those requests, Iactually genuinely I want to help them, but the pitfall is I actually don'thave any background of how I can clearly help them. And you want to make surethat you're utilizing someone's time. So if you're a founder and if you'regoing out to a partner or someone that you're looking to broker introduction,someone that can help you, be really clear on that, ask and and also don't beafraid in being direct in a way that you know you've done your research and yousaid, hey, I can see that you've got this experience and you volunteered hereor you've done some mentoring in this place and you know this person and whythat is valuable for you. Because the power you can never discredit, the powerof storytelling and that's what I've probably learned within my time is thatactually, those personal experiences, those you know, the learnings andchallenges that you've had. It's not actually a bad thing to share those,because that builds rapport, builds trust from the other person, it gives thema sense of you and why are you actually going to them, like, why are youactually, you know, cold outreaching, and so I find that incredibly helpful. Inthe calls and you know, meetings that I've had with people that have reachedout to me, you know cold has normally been because of some sort of personalsharing or connection or something that they've, you know, stated in theiroutreach that I personally connect with and they've spent the five minutes togo. You know, look through my profile or found that mutual and said you know, Iactually know this person from university or my previous startup would love toconnect, and that just goes to your point. You know the person that you justpreviously spoke to and did some due diligence, it goes, you know, a long, longway. So I think that's just the only advice and I think a lot of founders wouldboth heed that advice, but also they would also appreciate, because I'm surethey get inundated with, you know, outbounding requests all the time.

Karen Zhang: 12:25

I almost see relationships in this like mental model oflike, almost like Venn diagrams in a way, if you imagine, like your personal,professional, and I mean personally between family and friends as well. And Ihave this reminder as well, because I have a like, a little like um Trinity,not and it always reminds me of those different concentric relationships that Ihave and also like for me, my, my family, my friends will always come first. Imean, that's just like a like, I think I can call um. But then, beyond that,when it comes to professional relationships, there is a bit of an overlap andwhat I'm finding especially one of the cultural nuances and differencesactually I realized moving from Sydney to London was that there is a lot moreoverlap and interplay between personal and professional and a lot of theconnections that you make. It's like once you connect with someone, you messageon whatsapp, you're, you know you're going to seed runs and different, you knowactivities like that's when you've actually built not just a professionalrelationship but a personal one.

Karen Zhang: 13:23

For me,  in terms of prioritization, I always thinkabout I guess I just kind of go through a list of okay, what are the outcomesthat I'm trying to achieve and is there a mutual win-win? Because, to yourpoint, there are so many people that reach out about potential collaborationsand events, but the reality is I don't want to be wasting their time and theydon't want to be essentially wasting my time. So I find it's incrediblyvaluable to be clear around. What is it that realistically, you can both achieve?Now, you don't always know that from the get go, and that is part of the, youknow, getting to know that person, exploring what opportunities there might be.But for me, I'll prioritize based on that

Karen Zhang: 14:02

 If there is a clear you know clear immediate outcomethat we can both drive together, that's going to take my priority, and so I'llalways look at it from a work lens my hat within leading fintechs and then theVC partnerships lens. So if I can provide value in that and there's somethingtangible that I can drive, I will focus my energy there. But then tangentially,if there are, you know, people that have interests or they want to support orthey want to learn more or there's something that you know maybe there's somebenefit there I also go, you know. You never know when a relationship is goingto help out some time down the track. So I always try and pay it forward andeven if it's just hey, I can't help you right now, maybe I'm not the rightperson, but I'm always super open with my network and I'll introduce people andmake that connection. So I've done that.

Karen Zhang: 14:44

Within now, having worked across different regions, makingintroductions to people back in Australia, people that are looking to expandand grow the business, I'm super, super happy to you know, to pay that forward.So that's my kind of thought is again is that kind of? Is that kind of thatimmediate value? And just checking with yourself, are you balanced right now?Do you have the capacity? Um, because that's something with me. I always sayyes to a lot of things and I guess you know that's even how we've collaboratedin a lot of ways. I've just been super inspired and super taken back, um, bywhat you're doing with comedian. I've got you, let's do this, let's try this,but I'm always just checking it, tying it back. Okay, is there actually anoutcome that we can both mutually benefit from. And where am I at the moment interms of everything else on my plate? So it's look. There's no perfect recipe.I'm all. I think we're all just trying our best at the end of the day, and justum trying to do the right thing, right.

Amardeep Parmar: 15:31

So is there any particular areas of like partnerships thatyou think are often overlooked where startups can really gain a lot of valuefrom? But maybe there's a lot you don't see too many startups actually tryingto create this kind of partnerships?

Narinder Pattii: 15:46

So that's another great question. I'd say that, um, reallyleverage the networks and the connections that you have and don't be afraid toask questions. So if we take, for example, in the BAE HQ event that was done atGoogle recently, there were so many people that I spoke to that had no ideathat funding was available for them and they had no idea that there was allthis support ecosystem that was available, which is essentially the partnerecosystem that we have right as entrepreneurs. So ask those hard questions andthat will get you to the next step. So just go and leverage that network anddon't feel embarrassed, don't feel like, oh, am I doing the right thing?Because if you don't take that first step and you don't ask, be risky, youwon't know.

Amardeep Parmar: 16:41

What are some of the great questions that people have askedyou at these kind of events?

Narinder Patti: 16:44

So some of the questions I get I. So some of the questionsthat I personally get asked are how do we get technical support or how do weget funding? I'm doing this with my company. I've got this idea. I don't knowoperationally how to elevate to the next level. Have you got some advice forus? So those are of types of questions that, um, I tend to get asked.

Amardeep Parmar: 17:15

You mentioned that you've done this in such a lean team andlimited budget as well, especially in the early days, and there's going to bemany founders listening now in that same position where they've got a smallteam, they've got limited resources, but they want to make that impact and wantto start creating that long lasting legacy. What are some of the steps thatpeople can take at those early days, when maybe they don't have 100 millionfrom a VC to prop them up?

Priya Chande: 17:39

Yeah, I mean we're proudly bootstrapped, independently ownedand female founded and bootstrapped to date and you know we're. That, I think,has actually been a blessing in a lot of ways because it's meant that we've hadto be really nimble and really kind of like seek out the diamonds in the rough,as it were, in terms of the opportunities for us to kind of grow our awarenessand get kind of people to know about us. Ruby, our founder in the early days,will always say she said yes to every opportunity. I think now she'd probablysay don't say yes to everything. But that's because of the stage we're at nowand needing to be a little bit more kind of uh, streamlined in our choices andnot spreading ourselves too thin. But in the early days it was just say yes toabsolutely everything, um, so that people can hear about you, because you justnever know what can come of it. And we're very proud that because of that, alot of the relationships that we secured in the early days, particularlywithin, for example, the influencer marketing space, um, we are still, youknow, we still have those today and actually it's meant that we don'tnecessarily have to start afresh and pay a lot of the big budgets that a lot ofother brands do, because we've loaded that, that we've. We've nurturedrelationship from day one.

Priya Chande: 18:53

But the other thing we've done and I'd like to say we'repretty good at and we're ninjas in entering competitions. So we seek outopportunities, and any opportunities there are to win any kind of budget forany kind of competition, we just put ourselves out there Even if we don't eventhink we're qualified for it. Sometimes we just throw our hats in the ringbecause we're like we can do it. We, you know there's at the end of the dayyou've got to be in it to win it. And what's the worst that can happen? Youdon't get selected this time round, um, or you know you miss out on thatopportunity. But at least you know then what it takes if you want to enteragain the next time, what you might need to do in order to kind of have abetter chance the next time around.

Amardeep Parmar: 19:33

So I can give you two very clear examples of things thatwe've done.

Priya Chande : 19:37

So the Sky Net Zero Footprint Fund, which launched, I think,three years ago now. We entered in their second year and we were selected asthe winners of the second year fund. So we won a quarter of a million pounds tocreate our first ever TV ad, which then got aired across Sky channelsthroughout 2023. And another one was the JC Deco Reach program, which wasleveraging media outdoor media, digital outdoor media to speak to kind ofminority communities and ethnic communities we um won a hundred thousand poundsfor, and which we launched our desi period stories campaign on first southasian heritage month last year, which was all about the wuka wedding and kindof the intergenerational impact of menstruation across the south asiancommunities. So two very different examples of media formats, um. But you knownearly half a million pounds worth of media there that we secured for Xero,which we would have otherwise never got if we hadn't just kind of thrown ourhats in the rings and had a little bit of self-belief.

Amardeep Parmar: 20:51

And with people knowing what their options are,  If they're trying to consider right now isIPO, I want to go down because I think sometimes often people I talk to thinkabout IPO is post-uniform valuation or something way down the line. How shouldthey maybe consider or think about? Maybe I should do this earlier. Maybethere's some coaches could be, maybe in the near-term future.

Neil Shah: 21:10

Maybe there's some switches could be maybe in the near term,future, absolutely, and I guess part of the reason for people thinking you needto be a unicorn is there are so many war stories of companies that didn't makeit. It's, it's hard, it's clearly not for everyone, and those that get thepress are typically those businesses that floated, haven't delivered and thenhave gone back cap in hand to fund managers asking for capital. At some pointpeople get fed up of funding and if you looked at venture, you'd see the samehorror stories, right. But just to give you some examples, in 2017, we hadBoku, which is Californian fintech that listed here in payments. They helpSpotify and Netflix subscribers in Indonesia and um, Singapore and Malaysia andreally all around the world subscribe to um, the likes of Spotify and Netflix,and they came to market with just 17 million dollars of revenue. Now they werebacked by the great and good of venture Benchmark Index Kossler, Nea, dag A16Z$70 million of revenue, not really growing loss-making and they raised £45million of primary capital at £126 million market cap and today it's about £550million market cap, right.

Neil Shah: 22:24

So Forex Phonics was founder, founder, owned and led a guycalled Will Neal. He's backed by 170 fintechs. So if you need money, go andspeak to will. He. That company was 40 million pounds of revenue, growing about30 percent 19 percent EBITDA margin and you know that's been a free x on themarket and and that was all secondary. So they raised also 45 million. But thiscapital really went out to Will and other shareholders to reinvest in thestartups they chose.

Neil Shah: 22:55

One of my favorite examples, Amar, is a company called AlphaGroup, so this was also a 2017 IPO. It was found by a guy called Morgan. Eightand a half million pounds of revenue, 65 percent growth, doing a couple millionof EBITDA, and they raised 30 million of primary, a bit of secondary 64 millionpound market cap. They priced at about two pounds a share and that's about 23quid. Now it's just sent to the FTSE 250. And Morgan owns 13 percent of it. It There'salso 100 employee shareholders. I think IPO is the most democratic way to fundstartups and there's so many brilliant uh Asian businesses in the UK that theymight be thinking about succession planning or you know where next and um, Ithink they should really think about using the market at the fund and not justuh be put off by what they might have read in the papers, it's been a good year.

Amardeep Parmar: 23:56

Thank you for watching. Don't forget to subscribe. See younext time.

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