Sandrine Zhang Ferron: 0:00In the UK only 22 million pieces of furniture end up in landfill every year, and the majority of those items have been produced in the past 10 to 15 years. Because when you buy fast furniture it's so cheap, because it hasn't been designed to last, and so you know, we are very proud to contribute to a more circular way of shopping for furniture. I mean, on average, the Vinterior piece is 100 years old and probably better quality than a lot of the fast furniture around here, and it has more character.#

‍Amardeep Parmar: 0:38

Today on the podcast we have Sandrine Zhang-Feron, the CEO and founder of Vinterior. It's the online curated marketplace for vintage and design furniture. Sandrine's got an incredible story. Growing up in France, coming across the UK to work, where she worked in structured finance and the financial markets, before deciding one day, when building her own house, that there was a massive gap in the market for antique furniture and being able to get a hold of it in an easy way when building her own house, that there was a massive gap in the market for antique furniture and being able to get a hold of it in an easy way. This started an almost decade-long journey of interior where she started coding it herself and since then expanded expanded massively to have a much larger team and including investment from Channel 4 Ventures. I hope you enjoyed today's episode. I'm Amar from the BAE HQ and this podcast is powered by HSBC Innovation Banking. So great to have you here today and what you've been building at Ventura is incredible. But obviously you started from somewhere. What were you like growing up?

Sandrine Zhang Ferron: 1:38

So actually I wanted to become an astrophysicist. So, yeah, I remember always asking question like why does the universe exist, what was before the big bang? And my friends say, oh, it's boring. So yeah, but um, but then I didn't get um kind of like more engineering school I wanted, so I ended up in a business school and here we are so was it almost considered?

Amardeep Parmar: 2:03

How did you feel at that point? Because I guess if you really wanted to be an astrophysicist, when you didn't get that, did I say that word right, astrophysicist, yep. So when you didn't get that, how did you feel at that point?

Sandrine Zhang Ferron: 2:17

I mean, I think I was really interested in more. You know STEM studies. But then, like in France, you have like two paths, you know, for higher education. Either you go to an engineering school or a business school and you have to pass exam to get to a good preparatory schools, which takes two years and it's a kind of a national ranking. And I didn't get my first choice for the engineering school, so ended up in the business school and I'm one of my best friends in the high school say, yeah, it's gonna be uh like more fun to go in business school. So you know, you know, when you're high school you don't really know what you want to do. So I was fine.

Amardeep Parmar: 2:52

And did you enjoy it when you started studying business?

Sandrine Zhang Ferron: 2:55

Yeah, I loved it because, um, I mean unfortunately didn't learn that much at at the school itself. Um, met a lot of friends. I mean, I did learn a lot of the basics, which are still useful today, like you know the one-on-one of finance and accounting. I think all the marketing teaching at the time is not irrelevant, to be honest, and I didn't take any entrepreneurship class, but I think it's more like the internships I did during my studies are really useful.

Amardeep Parmar: 3:26

What internships did you do?

Sandrine Zhang Ferron: 3:28

Oh, I did a very exciting 12-month internship at EY doing audits and I had decided to choose the industrial sector. So I still remember, you know, new Year Eve going to this you know pottery warehouse to measure all the material concrete, to make sure that all the numbers are ticked for the end of the year inventory. But yeah, I think it taught me a lot about just, you know, attention to detail, checking your numbers and the basic of you, um, you know, like financial statements, a balance sheet, PNL, cash flow and which point did you start thinking, maybe I want to start doing something myself, or is that not really a thought until later on?

Sandrine Zhang Ferron: 4:15

So after uni, um, I had to spend six months abroad and found an internship in London, um, as a, as a sales assistant in a structural product desk. So, because I had studied options and derivatives and wanted to work on the trading floor and I was more on the nerd side so I wanted to do structuring. But you know, like hey, go in sales and so yeah, so I started working, working. I got a job after three months, so did that for four years, really enjoyed, um, you know like fast-paced nature of being, uh, on the trading floor. So, yeah, at the time I wasn't really considering a business. But then one of my clients, um, who was chief investment officer at a family office, asked me to work from them.

Sandrine Zhang Ferron: 5:07

So I went on the other side, on the investment side, and then did that for three years and that's how I bought my new home, from a flat in Shoreditch to a grown-up house in Highbury that was going to become a family home. So I just wanted to find better quality furniture for the place, spend all my weekends working a busy job doing that, and that's how I got the idea of interior and at the same time I started to realize that I didn't want to spend the rest of my life working, finance and making rich people richer. So it was, you know, like kind of the combination of being bored of what I was doing, not really finding it very fulfilling or exciting, and having this idea and say, ok, let's, let's go for it and see if it works.

Amardeep Parmar: 6:05

I guess when you're at the family office, where did you start to see more startups, more talk to more business and entrepreneurs at a stage that starts to give you that rub for it?

Sandrine Zhang Ferron: 6:10

Oh, not at all. When I was working on the family office because the way I went into it I was, you know, selling more structured products based on cross-asset product. I was more doing that, so more on the buy side, so suggesting investment instruments, also working more at the portfolio real estate and you know family offices are quite chaotic so it could be just any request from the principal. But I don't remember at all coming across startup investment opportunity at the time. It was more, you know, traditional investment classes.

Amardeep Parmar: 6:49

So when you started Vinterior, was the idea that it would become like a startup and really grow as fast as it did eventually, or what were your ambitions at the beginning? Was it just meant to be a try and see, or what were you thinking?

Sandrine Zhang Ferron: 7:00

Yeah, like no plan at all. So I think I got the idea for Vinterior. So, okay, you know, they are so like in fashion, there are already a lot of outlets for you to buy, you know secondhand or you know like outlet pieces at another price and get everything online. So, okay, why isn't anything for furniture? Right, like a way to select a lot of inventory which is more affordable, good quality. So I thought just, you know, let's see, I will figure it out. But the challenge was how do I build a tech? Right, I was working finance in the background tech and talking to a friend working VC. I asked him should I find a co-founder, hire an agency, um, hire an employee? And he's like, why don't you learn to code yourself? Like, oh, yeah, let's do that. So, basically, when I had the idea, I started to um to search some coding bootcamp, found one I liked, starting in September. So quit my job, um, and learn to code. And everyone like you're crazy, like that's such a you know, rush decision, you're gonna regret it.

Amardeep Parmar: 8:18

And yeah, that's how it started how did you feel at that point? Did you were you because I remember when I quit my job, but then there was that stress at the beginning of have I made a good decision? And then I was lucky that people supported me, but at the same time you're like I don't know what I've done. But when you started that code boot camp, did it feel like, yeah, I've really done the right path here, or was there?

Sandrine Zhang Ferron: 8:35

Yeah, I mean I tend to, you know, not really regret or question my decision. Um, because you know, I had some savings from finance and I was really excited to learn more about the opportunity and I had this idea, this vague idea, of a marketplace. I had read this book about the origin story of eBay and I found it fascinating and, you know, having worked at a brokerage firm as well, you know it was quite familiar, this idea of matching demand and supply. And so like, yeah, it's going to be a learning opportunity and I'll figure it out. And I mean it's not a massive issue if I fail, like there was no really consequences for me at this stage. You know I didn't have a child. I had some have a child, I had some savings from finance, so I just went for it and, you know, didn't question it, I loved it.

Amardeep Parmar: 9:35

And when you were building that product initially. So I'm guessing you built the first product version yourself in MVP.

Sandrine Zhang Ferron: 9:41

Yes, correct.

Amardeep Parmar: 9:41

How was that experience?

Sandrine Zhang Ferron: 9:44

Yeah, it was really fun because, you know, I think this part where you build something from nothing and everything is possible I guess that's what I mean. I really enjoy being a founder because nothing is possible and obviously I was on my own so I didn't have to, you know, discuss with anyone about it or talk to anyone. I think the challenge was to actually fight the procrastination because there was no deadline and and at some point I took to a friend like just set a random date. So I set a random date, so like I need to have 200 listing by that date and work on it. So, you know, building the website took three months. I had I had a friend from the bootcamp who helped as well. That was really fun. And then spent a few weeks really doing a sales job, cold calling antique dealers in London and once I got 200 people just launched. But you know, like it just launched, I was the only one to celebrate like no one knew it was happening.

Sandrine Zhang Ferron: 10:48

So, yeah, it was just how it started.

Amardeep Parmar: 10:52

Even just getting that first 200 people cold calling with a brand new platform is an achievement in itself, how was that experience? Obviously you must have had to cold call a lot more people than that, or was it actually when you spoke to the customers, they really understood very quickly, like what, the value in what you're doing?

Sandrine Zhang Ferron: 11:06

So I, you know, being a marketplace um for marketplace the idea was a marketplace to buy high-end second-hand furniture. So I messaged all my friends like, do you have good quality furniture to sell? And obviously not so many people had. So, ok, maybe I should focus on the B2B side. So you know, I built a pipeline of vintage and antique dealers that I knew went online to find more vintage and actually my first job because it was sales I had, you know, called a lot of finance people you know, private bankers, asset managers, insurers, so you know, calling an antique dealer compared to that is, you know, they're very pleasant. So, yeah, so it was fine. It was like more, you know, making the process targeting. You know making the process targeting, you know 50 leads, 50 calls, 100 calls, otherwise I don't go to a toilet and just get on with it.

Amardeep Parmar: 11:58

And when you were explaining the products at that stage, what did you find that really resonated with them?

Sandrine Zhang Ferron: 12:03

I think you know, like, for dealers, I just wanted to have a platform that's, you know, really resonated with their view of the brands, that celebrated the craftsmanship of their products and that was easy for them and they were dissatisfied with the existing solution at the time. So I mean also, when I pitched, obviously, I think when I pitched I'm not sure if the website was online, I think maybe I just pitched on the deck. So when you think about it, wow, like, thank you all those like early dealers for joining us I think it just like shows a real pinpoint. Right, like you know, the dealer, we work with SMEs, sometimes like solo traders, maybe juggling another job with SMEs, sometimes like solo traders, maybe doing another job, or people who have chain careers and turn a hobby into a job, and it's hard work, right, like, as all founders know, there's a dream, you know, like job or the core business that you like. So, for dealers, we like finding and restoring great pieces, but then you get all the business admin crap..

Amardeep Parmar: 13:12

Yeah. I know about the business admin crap.

Sandrine Zhang Ferron: 13:14

Right, taxes, compliance stuff, you know, HR, whatever. And so you know, like, having a partner that can allow them to grow that business and that online presence beyond the existing you know customer base and footfall, while helping them as well with, you know, like marketing and the order admin, you could yeah, I could tell it really resonated with the dealers and I realized, okay, the most important to them is time. You know that don't have the time to deal with this crap. You know we never have enough time as business owners. So, like, how can we make it very simple for them to sell with us? So from the start, you know, I think we really focus on the onboarding process where if a dealer say, okay, I want to join Vinterior, you know, like in 24 hours they can have the whole inventory on the site ready to take orders without having to open their laptop. So that's kind of the work experience we've always focused on refining since we hope you're enjoying the episode so far.

Amardeep Parmar: 14:21

We just want to give a quick shout out to our headline partners, HSBC Innovation Banking. One of the biggest challenges for so many startups is finding the right bank to support them, because you might start off and try to use a traditional bank, but they don't understand what you're doing. You're just talking to an AI assistant or you're talking to somebody who doesn't really understand what it is you've been trying to do. HSBC have got the team they've built out over years to make sure they understand what you're doing. They've got the deep sector expertise and they can help connect you with the right people to make your dreams come true. So if you want to learn more, check out hsbcinnovationbanking.com. If you've got the first 200 people on the board there, you also need people to buy the products right. How do you go about that part of the equation?

Sandrine Zhang Ferron: 15:03

On the buyer side. So that's we had three phases. You know, like marketplace being chicken and egg, we focus on building the supply and actually that created the demands, because each of our products is unique and can be quite specific, right, kind of, let's say, a 90s, 30s chair from this designer, from this manufacturer, etc. So, um, every time I did a listing to the platform, it, you know, made us rank on in terms of SEO. So the whole, you know, couple of years of growth, it was a simple equation grow listing, growth demand, um, added to that, obviously, performance marketing and lately, more you know, investing in the brand. Right, like once we sort, we have really product market fit, people want our product, we have optimized experience. Now, how can we go bigger and, you know like, even grow a market, make people realize that buying second hand is better?

Amardeep Parmar: 16:10

You mentioned about product market fit there. Where do you feel like there's an inflection point where, like, yes, we've nailed this, now we've got the right idea, now we just need to scale? Where do you think that came?

Sandrine Zhang Ferron: 16:19

That's a stop and go, I would say, because obviously you have the Sean Ellis program market fit test that we send to customers and buyers and you know where. If over 40%, they would be very disappointed if they couldn't use your service. You have product market fits, so you know we survey customers and buyers to measure that. But also it changes as you expand your customer segments. Right. Like you may have product fit with early adopters, but as you broaden to a different type of customer, then there is more work to invest, maybe more trust signal, to build, more education. So I think it's going to be a constant investment and always keeping customer front and center.

Amardeep Parmar: 17:05

You mentioned at the beginning. You taught yourself how to code, you did this early sales course. You did the marketing. When did you decide it was the right moment to start expanding the team and who was? who's the first hire, and how did you go about that?

Sandrine Zhang Ferron: 17:15

So, yeah, I love that. Uh, I mean, I love my first hire Mark, if you hear me, hello, um, so. So obviously I didn't have any uh huge ambition when I started. I was like let's figure it out, and by chance I met with an investor from Seedcamp, Sia, because one of the interior designers I was calling to promote the business had a friend who was an intern at Seedcamp. So I think I had to create a quick video about the team in one minute. That was just me. Video like playing all the roles. And then I got into other different like pitch cycles and got the investment with, like you know, very small precedent round 75K euros in three trenches. So not a lot of money, but that's okay. I'm ready to hire someone and I think my priority was someone to help me acquire more suppliers and take on customer support. And again, chance. So there is a lot of luck here.

Sandrine Zhang Ferron: 18:23

One of our dealers, Malcolm, sent me an email saying hey look, furniture et cetera is shutting down and furniture et cetera was kind of the Vintiera but launched by Times Inc at the time and I wasn't aware when I launched and ran that and they were shutting down and I said, okay, is there anyone good from that team that you would recommend? I said, okay, this guy, Mark which was quite a switch tone. So I reached out to Mark. We meet, I think, for a pint and because I didn't have a team or any investor, I think I even invited my husband. So when I think about it, it was a weird interview. Drinking a pint with my husband. I'm like, okay, you're a good guy.

Sandrine Zhang Ferron: 19:17

Very friendly, very warm, a northerner and um, yeah, and uh got Mark on board.

Amardeep Parmar: 19:19

Yeah, because we mentioned we were talking before earlier how we're doing our first proper hire and what you look for in those kind of candidates, and obviously now your team has expanded quite a lot more. What do you look for in the people you're trying to hire? How do you know they are the right fit? I'm guessing you don't take everybody for a beer with your husband still?

Sandrine Zhang Ferron: 19:32

No, no, actually the majority of my team maybe doesn't know my husband, but yeah, the beer interview it lasted for a few years, I think, not with a husband. So I mean, obviously now we have much better refined process. So, you know, I think being very clear about what we expect from someone is critical and the lesson learned from you know how that didn't work out is because probably I wasn't that clear about what great look like. So, aside from you know, like the obvious, which are competency and hard skills, obviously culture fit is key. So we have been refining over the year as well, because the company's values and the behavior we expect can have a, you know, kind of set list of questions.

Sandrine Zhang Ferron: 20:20

I ask candidates to assess if they can accept those values, but it's not foolproof. But you know, in a nutshell, and you know from talking with other fundraisers, we are all looking for the same thing. You know a can-do attitude. You know like not taking no for an answer, everything is possible and a stronger sense of ownership and follow through. And you know communication is very key, right, like openness, transparency, super important to me. I'm French-Chinese, so we have a very direct communication.

Sandrine Zhang Ferron: 20:52

So, yeah, yeah, no beating around the bush.

Amardeep Parmar: 20:55

I just started to grow that team out and you said at this point you're still thinking about the problem. You're just, you're just passionate about the problem. When you start thinking this is actually something which could really scale here and really grow to this kind of size. It is now even bigger than that. Was there a moment where like, okay, maybe we should start thinking down that route?

Sandrine Zhang Ferron: 21:13

It just came organically because, obviously, having a vc fund, our first investor and some angels, you just get into the ecosystem and so you know, when the precede raise is raised like okay, what about the seed and the series a, etc. And these things always happen differently from what's planned. But, um, yeah, just quickly you go on the on this treadmill of the abcdz. I suppose it's always this kind of conflict between feeling, oh, we are so far from like the size of the opportunity I want to go, so it's just the beginning, and also taking the time to appreciate oh, oh, wow, we have accomplished quite a lot and actually maybe we are someone. So, you know, we went to last week I was at an event we organized with you know, journalists and influencers and creators and to showcase our new TV ads, like, ok, that's going to allow us to build brand fame and to be known across the UK. And someone said but you're already known. I'm like, oh, yeah, good to hear. So, yeah, I think sometimes external validation also helps to appreciate.

Amardeep Parmar: 22:26

Could you share some of the biggest wins you've had so far, the moment you're most proud about, that the company's been able to achieve.

Sandrine Zhang Ferron: 22:32

Oh, so many wins. I think I mean more recently, obviously, we just launched our first TV ad and then we also managed to get Bill Nighy as a voiceover for the ad. So that's so exciting and you know it has been such a great teamwork to get there and we are seeing early strong metrics. So very exciting to get there and we are seeing early strong metrics. So very exciting.

Sandrine Zhang Ferron: 22:55

You know, the past few years have been quite tough. You know, after COVID, obviously you know e commerce was had a lot of headwinds with inflation, et cetera, especially for high value items like ours. So and we had, you know, like, grown the team quite significantly after raising our series in 2021. So we had to go through some cost cutting. So that has been tough. But then, as a result, you know, like I'm looking at the past 12 months, we have increased our margin massively. We are growing over 60% year on year. We are going to get a profitability in Q4. And also, like sales just seems to grow more easily. So you know, it's good to see that it's paying off. And, you know, I think the win is always to see how the team is resilient, how they can rebound from those like constant changes,

Amardeep Parmar: 23:52

One of the things you've done really cool as well which I see all over the place whenever we're going back to London is these billboards right when you're very tongue-in-cheek, very bold with what you're doing. How did the ideas for those come about, and can you just tell that story as well?

Sandrine Zhang Ferron: 24:05

Yeah, that's funny because that's again, I think, a lot of luck. So I think for a second tube ads. So, because the first tv campaign um tube ads, we, we did something very beautiful but I think people were not clear who we were. So the brief for the second campaign was let's be really bold, pretty bold, and you know, like, be very, um, you know, have a stronger point of voice on who we are.

Sandrine Zhang Ferron: 24:31

What we stand for, like you know, uniqueness, quality, build to last. Like you know, F the flat pack and so agency came up with like those brilliant lines of you know, no Swedish meatball, no divorce, no instructions. Or you're better than flat pack and someone. Or it was just by chance, no instructions, or you're better than Flatpak and someone, or it was just by chance, due to the calendar happened that all over London our ads were just next to IKEA's and it was really funny to have and I think that was picked up by press, by the Daily Mail and everyone, so that we had space specifically TFL to get there.

Sandrine Zhang Ferron: 25:15

But no, it's like maybe a very, uh, nice angel who did that for us.

Amardeep Parmar: 25:22

And did that make a huge impact for the business that press coverage?

Sandrine Zhang Ferron: 25:25

Yeah, it created a lot of a lot of buzz right and um, you know like we have a lot of customer like coming creative industries, so that's obviously like help strengthen the brand awareness. But I think it's not so much about the reference about, you know, Ikea. I think it's really about having a strong point of view and standing out and not doing something cookie cutter.

Amardeep Parmar: 25:48

I also see you talk a lot about how the work getting up in the Vinterior also has a big impact on the climate too, because of what people tend to use When they use the alternatives is that there's a lot of wastage things being made but not lasting very long. But what you're doing is a piece of furniture that's been already around for a long time and reusing that, which is obviously better than creating something new. So can you talk a bit about that as well, the impact you've made through what you're doing?

Sandrine Zhang Ferron: 26:14

and obviously that's what motivates everyone in the team.

Sandrine Zhang Ferron: 26:21

In the UK only 22 million pieces of furniture end up in landfill every year and the majority of those items have been produced in the past 10 to 15 years.

Sandrine Zhang Ferron: 26:33

Because when you buy fast furniture it's so cheap because it hasn't been designed to last or to be recycled or repaired or repurposed. You know, like if it's just stapled and glued you can't do anything about it, and so you know we are very proud to contribute to a more circular way of shopping for furniture. I mean, in average the vintage piece is 100 years old and probably better quality than a lot of the fast furniture around here, and it has more character. And you know, obviously we don't have any carbon emissions because it's already produced and we also offset our carbon for deliveries. So it's really important for us to obviously build a business that can provide joy for customers from finding the unique piece to meet their taste and their home and also do good for the world.

Amardeep Parmar: 27:33

I guess as well, because you obviously you were looking at an issue for a piece for yourself. Is it hard for you to not also just keep looking at the stock you have and go? Do I need another chair? Because I guess you get to see so many incredible pieces?

Sandrine Zhang Ferron: 27:44

Yeah.

Amardeep Parmar: 27:45

How has your relationship changed with that as well?

Sandrine Zhang Ferron: 27:47

I'm a hoarder. I'm a hoarder. My husband keeps saying like I also, like I buy stuff, like okay, I'm going to repost all that, and like I don't have time so I don't do it. So I have a lot of projects sitting, yeah, and I've been redecorating a couple of times since I started Vinterior and I'm reselling on Vinterior and yeah, it's extraordinary because like, especially in the current climate, right, like moving home is hard. You know, buying your first property and then like furnishing it can be a significant cost. But what I've seen, like the Vinterior pieces, because they're good quality and you already buy them at maybe 20% or 30% of what it would cost new, they retain their value and they can even increase in value.

Sandrine Zhang Ferron: 28:36

I think some pieces I managed to sell them higher than the price I bought them from, and so you know it's also a good investment somehow

Amardeep Parmar: 28:46

That's an important point as well, I guess, because, like you said, many of these pieces are more high end, but it's worth making the investment, because it's not like if you buy a 300 pound cupboard from a Swedish company, yeah, you can't really sell that in the same way, you're making an investment, but don't actually, it doesn't decay as quickly

Sandrine Zhang Ferron: 29:03

Exactly because you know it was built to last. And, um, you know people, some people are really attached right to those beautiful pieces or would even want to keep it and pass it on to other generation. But also you know that if you resell it you can gain value, because you know if you buy something new, even if it's like super quality, it should depreciate very quickly from the moment it's delivered. Maybe you can resell it at 30% of the price and obviously, for you know, flat pack, I mean you can sell them for 5 pounds on Facebook marketplace, yeah, but it's still better than ending on the landfill. But then if you buy something which was already, you know, 30% to 50% of the price, new and it's good quality, then the decay is going to be, you know, not that significant right. Like, if you use it for five years and it's been around for 50, it doesn't really make a big difference, and then you can, yeah, resell it at the same price.

Amardeep Parmar: 30:02

Looking at the future now as well. So obviously you've just had new investment in. You've got the tv ad coming in. What's exciting about the future? What are you looking forward to? What's the dream for the next few years?

Sandrine Zhang Ferron: 30:11

I mean, the first, most immediate goal is to, uh, get to a sustainable profitability, um, because that just means you know more time, options, um, and you know ability to invest also in long-term growth and projects that matter to us, rather like having to prioritize only short-term gains. And the second one is expansion. So today we are mostly in the UK and it's a big market and we have 50% of inventory outside of the UK from dealers in over 30 countries. So we are very excited of finding ways to create, to open the demand market outside of the UK in continental Europe.

Sandrine Zhang Ferron: 30:59

So that's what we are exploring for next year.

Amardeep Parmar: 31:01

And I guess obviously you've got an advantage with France in particular.

Sandrine Zhang Ferron: 31:05

Yeah, obviously I'm French. I do know the market, have you know, know people there and you know, with UK and Germany, one of the largest market for furniture and there are a lot of antique dealers there as well. So but yeah, there are a lot of options to consider.

Amardeep Parmar: 31:24

Actually, when you started this, you didn't necessarily have the idea that it would get to where it is today. What do you think your biggest learnings have been?

Sandrine Zhang Ferron: 31:36

Focus. I think that's something that's um we all hear and like everyone advises, but it's very hard to do, um, and I think sometimes actually, you know, financial constraints can force you to focus and you're like, so good it is, and I think, just the acceptance there won't, there will never be enough time to do everything, and it doesn't mean that it doesn't matter, but there is no time.

Sandrine Zhang Ferron: 31:59

So, I think, just accepting that and just allow me to be very, you know, deliberate about what I focus, to prioritize on.

Amardeep Parmar: 32:07

I guess it's not feeling guilty for what you can't do as well, because when you focus on what you can do, that's you make a bigger difference to.

Sandrine Zhang Ferron: 32:13

Yeah, I think, making it like okay, what I choose, right, not like I'm not doing it because I can't or because it's not important. Maybe, oh maybe it's very important and I'm still going to choose not to do that because I really want to choose to invest enough time in that bet and you know I want to make make the best chance for it to succeed.

Amardeep Parmar: 32:33

So thanks so much for sharing your story today.

Amardeep Parmar: 32:35

I really enjoyed it. We're gonna have to go to quickfire questions now, yeah, so first one is who are free british asians, or asians in britain that you think are doing incredible work and you'd have to shout them out?

Sandrine Zhang Ferron: 32:45

Yeah, of course. So the first one would be Reshma Sahoni, who's a founder and and at Seecamp, who I mean the first one who backed us and me, so, and she has been nominated on the Midas list for years and you know, women in VC are rare as well, so shout out to Reshma. I have two, so, Heinin Zhang and Siddhi Mittal. From yhangry they are like, just so high energy. They are, like you know, two co-founders, very complimentary, and so they help people find find a private chef to eat better, and also they organize a lot of community dinners who are such great fun and bring, you know, female founders together. And the third one is Radh a Vyas from Flashback. I met Radha Vyas actually one of your events and I mean we had a I don't know like a friend crush, and she had an extraordinary story where I think her business went into administration during COVID and she rebuilt it from scratch. So like, yeah, a girl boss. Really, shout out to her.

Amardeep Parmar: 33:55

Yeah, like well, if we have any traded emails, it'll be the other three. Love them. They've all been on the podcast before as well.

Amardeep Parmar: 34:01

So you can check them out.

Amardeep Parmar: 34:02

But if you want to find out more about you, find out more about Vinterior. Where should they go to?

Sandrine Zhang Ferron: 34:06

Google, Vinterior, you, us, and I think there is also a show with Radio 4 that I've done, pathfinders, where I also like sharing a bit more about the origin of Vinterior that I think people have said they've enjoyed.

Amardeep Parmar: 34:25

And is there anything that you need help with right now that maybe the audience listening could reach out and help you with?

Sandrine Zhang Ferron: 34:30

I think, just like you know, think and encourage people you know to think about second hand, second hand first. I think that would help us and help anyone. Like if you have furniture to sell, don't throw it to landfill. Like, go and list it on Vinterior.

Amardeep Parmar: 34:44

So thank you again so much for coming on. Have you got any final words for the audience?

Sandrine Zhang Ferron: 34:48

I think, yeah, thank you very much for having me here, I think it's so important to show that you can build something from scratch, however you look like or whatever your background. So, yes, thanks for the great job, Amar.

Amardeep Parmar: 35:05

Thank you for watching. Don't forget to subscribe. See you next time.

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