Scaling Your Startup: Leadership Tips for Founders w/ Mira Magecha | Play For Change

Mira Magecha: 0:00

Leadership isn't as hard and as complicated as we make it, and I think my last view is be you when you're leading. Don't try and be this leader up here that you've seen. Try and be as authentic and as natural as you can be and be open in terms of who you are when you're leading.

Anshika Arora: 0:23

Today, we're talking all about how you can be a good leader for your startup. We discuss the necessary skill sets a founder should develop in order to motivate and trust their team, as well as some common leadership pitfalls like micromanagement and poor delegation, as well as how to overcome them. We're honoured to have Mira on the podcast, who's the founder of Play for Change, which supports businesses to discover untapped opportunities and growth potential through connection, learning and play. She's a former FTSE 100 and a startup chief people officer and has worked with a range of clients, including Twitter, HSBC, Be Real and many, many more.

Anshika Arora: 0:59

I'm Anshika. I'm the founder of Eternity, a collaborative event management startup designed specifically for weddings, and I'm so excited to be hosting the BAE HQ podcast today, which is powered by HSBC Innovation Banking. Let's get into it. Thank you so much, Mira, for joining us on today's episode of the BAE HQ podcast. I'm so excited to be talking to you about what it takes to be a good leader in a startup. So let's just get straight into the deep end, starting off with what would you say are the core leadership skills that a founder should try and develop, regardless of what industry they're in, for their startup.

Mira Magecha: 1:38

Firstly, thank you so much for having me. I think there's real challenge with the founder ecosystem at the moment in terms of we spend so much time thinking about our clients, our guests, our product. What we don't spend enough time is the team that we're hiring, and so we know people, we bring people on because they're our friends, which is great, because I think you have to start somewhere, but what we don't often do as founders is think about who are we, who do we want to be and how do we get there? And so my biggest challenge in terms of helping founders to have these conversations is how do I want to show up each day? Who do I want to be as a founder? And ultimately, I move from being a founder to a leader. And so that journey of I've got this great product, this great idea, this great concept, but I'm going to need help to build that. So who is that founding team that comes on board to help me deliver that? I think it's a really crucial question that we often answer something 6, 12, 18, sometimes even three years down the line, and I don't think it's a question that ever finishes. It's a question that we constantly need to ask ourselves have we got the right people to help us.

Mira Magecha: 3:05

Sometimes, again, talking to founders, what we tend to do is go in small. We're only this small little business right now. How do I scale it? Well, sometimes we have to think big, and that doesn't mean we're paying multi-million pound salaries to our team members. It's more. How do we get the skills or the expertise? How do we buy that in? How do we borrow that in? Whatever that mechanism in is, let's try and do it in a way that enables us to be the best we can and surround ourselves with the right people that enables us to be better than it's my great, brilliant idea.

Anshika Arora: 3:43

So for the founders listening, would you be able to maybe just pinpoint a specific skill that they need to be developing and working on, as you said, to ensure that they're having the right team around them?

Anshika Arora: 3:54

And yes, you're starting off small. You maybe may not be able to afford the most expensive staff at the moment, but when it comes to being that leader, aside from the financial side, what kind of skills can founders start to develop?

Mira Magecha: 4:12

Self-awareness. So the first one that I kind of go with for everyone is and this isn't even just founders, it's all leaders. You don't have to be leading a team to be a leader. You can have thought-provoking ideas, you can have thought-provoking moments, but you also have to have the self-awareness of what are the things I am good at. What are the things that energize me versus the things that drain me. What are the things that keep me really consistent, motivated. What is the stuff that I just absolutely hate doing.

Mira Magecha: 4:42

So for me, for example, put me on social media and I want to just die on a constant basis. But actually the work that I do, the impact that I have, the coaching, conversations with leaders, the presenting, the facilitation, that's where I get my energy from, and so if I was to bring on someone on my team, it would be to help me be better at the stuff I don't like doing. But I can only do that if I have that first level of self-awareness and then understanding how I connect with people. So again, if we think about I need to be in a dark room to sit and I get my internal energy for myself versus I need to be surrounded by people and being a founder is really, really lonely. So how do I create that energy from being around people when I work for myself? Ultimately, when you start as a micro business is well, you start some network, you join some network groups, you sit in a co-working space, you do all of those things.

Mira Magecha: 5:43

That therefore gives you that energy that makes it feel like you're part of a team, um, even when you're not.

Anshika Arora: 5:50

Amazing and, I guess, to your point around start building a team, but be very aware of your strengths and maybe find people who fill those gaps for you. What advice would you give to founders who are then trying to, like you said, keep up that energy level but then also just communicate the wider vision and the strategy, because, as founders, almost everyone will start off to know OK, this is my one year goal, this is my five year goal, this is potentially my exit goal, but how can you make sure that you're keeping that energy up but actually just communicating the literal targets that you need your employees to help you achieve?

Mira Magecha: 6:26

Be passionate the biggest thing that some founders fail on is being very, very metric driven in terms of it's this metric versus this metric and in six months we're going to be here and we failed and we haven't achieved that. But actually, actually there's sometimes the pivot. There are very few businesses that I've experienced that set out on day one to be here in three months, six months, 12 months. I've been in a business where we were post IPO and we couldn't do a quarterly plan or a six month plan because each quarter we would pivot and we pivoted based on what was going on from a business. But being able to explain that and share why we're changing the direction or why we're no longer creating that product feature or that customer target or whatever your business model may be, but being able to be really passionate about why we're changing, being as honest as you can be and I completely understand we can't be honest about everything, um, and there are certain rules and guidance around when you can share and when you can't, especially when you're getting closer to the exit time.

Mira Magecha: 7:36

There are lots of conversations that can happen. That is sharing the real vision and the real vulnerability and being you. Ultimately, I believe that people follow people. It's not just about the business and the concept. Of course that matters, and people are getting more around sustainability and the ESG around businesses. But ultimately I will join a company because I like the person. I'm going to be working with the manager, I'm going to be working with the leader and what creates that advocacy? You as an individual. So be more you in sharing those changes in vision or even setting up why this was a really big thing for you to start with.

Anshika Arora: 8:21

Yeah, I think that's so important is for everyone to really be on the same page about what is the purpose alongside, like you said, the metric. Just coming back to one of your earlier questions of what's a key skill storytelling, so understanding where you come from.

Mira Magecha: 8:36

So, yes, it is self-awareness, but you've got to be able to put that into a way that enables you to connect with people, it enables you to create relationships, it enables you to really understand and for them, more importantly, to understand where you're coming from, and so finding your voice in terms of how you want to be perceived is really important as a founder as well.

Anshika Arora: 9:03

And that's really interesting because that brings me on to the next question I was going to ask, which does surround that when you're a founder and you obviously want to be empowering your team, but then, equally, you want them to take ownership, how do you balance that? Because it is sometimes a battle of good cop, bad cop. Good cop is the one who is empowering them, telling them this purpose, this passion, this vision, but then bad cop right, and then we actually just need to make sure that we're taking the right steps and the right deadlines to get that piece of work done. What advice would you give to founders there?

Mira Magecha: 9:33

Again, communication. I think one of the reasons why some founders don't make it is because they haven't necessarily communicated their goal and they haven't failed fast and moved quickly enough. And so, again, if we are able to share why we are pivoting, why we are changing, why we are failing at a certain point in time, that enables people to understand but also giving people the freedom. So one of the things that in startup world that we did we did a lot of was experimentation.

Mira Magecha: 10:12

How do you enable people to come up with good ideas, test them and have a pot of money aside and this probably doesn't work at a series A or pre seed business. It probably is more advanced but how do you have a pot of money that enables you to experiment, because you can then see what's working, what's not working and, if it's not working, close it, because you learn a lot more from those failures and you have to have a certain type of founder that will enable you to do that as well. So how risk adverse are you as a founder as well? Being really clear on that is really important too. So I know founders that are here's a pot of money, go experiment, and we'll, of course, have some yays and nos and gateways to get into that experimentation. But ultimately where do I sit on that risk continuum and how do I share some of that?

Anshika Arora: 11:10

I guess that also builds in the element of trust, doesn't it, between founders and your team, and if they're empowered with a pot of money to say here you go, do what you can and take risks and see how it works, you feel that level of trust and that responsibility. Um, so that's really interesting and I know you mentioned, as a founder, you need to learn to fail fast. Can you touch a bit more about that on, uh, the hiring process side, because as founders we're constantly hearing make sure that if your team isn't working for you, you have that turnover and you switch them out. What's the right balance as a leader between giving them a chance versus failing fast and actually just not keeping someone on board if they're not the right fit?

Mira Magecha: 11:53

I'd ask why they're not the right fit? Because clearly you've gone through an interviewing process and again I'm going to repeat, probably the same thing have the self-awareness. To go where did I fail in hiring? Because if you brought on three people as an example and they all don't make it, there's something wrong with probably your hiring process. In fact, I would probably examine the hiring process if that happens once. To go, where did we mess up? Because that's where we did. It could be a cultural fit, it could be a technical fit fit, it could be a number of things. So where is it that this failure happened? What responsibility can I take for this failure to not happen again? Versus actually it was genuinely the wrong hire because of x, y and z.

Mira Magecha: 12:37

We always have a role to play when we're hiring and it really really hard when you're doing it as a founding and as a founder of a really small micro business.

Mira Magecha: 12:48

Initially, because you're probably hiring your friends and family and being comfortable with having those tough conversations is really hard because you don't want to upset a lifelong friend, because they're just not the right fit or they're not pulling their weight, but at the same time, you're expecting them to do everything and one of the rules about having a small founding business is that there is no job title, there is no job description, there is none of that, and so you are expecting people to be able to flex, and so one of the big skills that you should be testing for when you're hiring is that ability to take your initiative, take initiative, understand what the requirements of the business are and can you flex that and pivot, probably 50 times a day to be able to do all of those things? Um, and for someone to sit there and go, that's not my job. You're probably not in the right place as a founding team member.

Amardeep Parmar: 13:48

We hope you're enjoying the episode so far. We just want to give a quick shout out to our headline partners, HSBC Innovation Banking. One of the biggest challenges for so many startups is finding the right bank to support them, because you might start off and try to use a traditional bank, but they don't understand what you're doing. Start off and try to use a traditional bank, but they don't understand what you're doing. You're just talking to an AI assistant or you're talking to somebody who doesn't really understand what it is you've been trying to do. HSBC have got the team they've built out over years to make sure they understand what you're doing. They've got the deep sector expertise and they can help connect you with the right people to make your dreams come true. So if you want to learn more, check out hsbcinnovationbanking.com.

Anshika Arora: 14:30

What advice would you give to a founder to make sure that those employees are held accountable and really given in that ownership?

Mira Magecha: 14:32

It's hard because I hear a lot of founders talk about. It's my baby, I grew this business from nothing, et cetera, et cetera. And so having this distance almost from something you've grown from absolutely nothing is hard. Psychologically. It's hard for any founder to go. I'm now going to give this up, but some of the founders that I have seen and unfortunately not had the privilege to work with have had enough self-awareness to go. I'm not ready to be that CEO.

Mira Magecha: 15:12

And so they brought in a CEO, because what they've actually got is a day-to-day mentor, a day-to-day person that they can look, watch, see how they do things and ultimately learn from to then take on that CEO role. And I think that they are some of the best founders because they know they're not quite ready, they know that there's time to grow, and so being open to that growth, being open to learning and just because you founded a business doesn't mean you know everything and so bring in the expertise, listen to that expertise and let them teach you. You can only be an expert in this little part of the world. You can't be an expert across the board. And the reason you brought these people on is because, technically, they're better than you at something that you're not so good at Listen to their expertise rather than overrule them on every decision, and I think that's fundamental to any leadership, not just founder led leadership.

Anshika Arora: 16:15

Yeah, I think that's a really good piece of advice because as founders, you are told well, you're going to be the all-rounder, and I think it takes to your first point, that self-awareness, to realize I can be the founder and I can have the vision, but I may not have the prior experience to be a leader in that way, and that's something that I need to learn, and so I think that's a really good top tip for founders to take on. I guess one of my questions is, alongside that, what are probably some of the more common pitfalls that you find in founders when it comes to leadership?

Mira Magecha: 16:45

Common pitfalls in leadership is Micromanaging, wanting to be in every single conversation. There are only so many hours in a day I was going to say days in an hour, hours in a day and you can't be everywhere and this is probably a pitfall for all leaders who are first time leaders. You have to have that trust and you can have the checkpoints in terms says I want to know this point, I want to be made aware if this was to happen and sometimes you won't be made aware because you don't know that it was such an important point. Or you might have a particular client that is your biggest client. So if there's any feedback or stuff that's not going so well, you want to be kept in the loop, because that's really fundamental to the rest of the business. But ultimately you have to have trust, and micromanaging not delegating, trying to do everything yourself, making all the decisions is where ultimately, as a leader, you're going to fail. Is where ultimately, as a leader, you're going to fail because you're either going to turn into a space where you can't possibly take in any more information, so you're going to head for burnout. You're not setting a great example to your team because you're constantly on, you're on 24-7. And we know these constant battles with. I'm always on and I'm always in the office. I never leave.

Mira Magecha: 18:30

Well, the world has moved on, the world has changed and you need to create some mental wellness for yourself and have some balance within your own life. And, yes, this is work life. It's everything and all encompassing right now. But how do you make sure that you're at home for dinner or you're going to the gym or you're going for that walk? Because inspiration doesn't happen at a desk. That I can probably tell you. Unless you've got the most beautiful inspiring environment and desk on the planet, most of your thinking weirdly will probably happen in the shower. Um, but it is about understanding your boundary to be able to go.

Anshika Arora: 19:11

I need to know about this, but I trust you to deal with these things and I think that's a really good point to have that clear conversation because, like you said, one of the pitfalls is micromanagement. Another pitfall is actually a lack of delegating correctly and being maybe a bit too generalist. What would you say for founders who maybe fall into that latter category?

Mira Magecha: 19:34

tThere's probably that piece where there is a balance especially in the early days of being a founder, of going I need to be made aware, but I don't need to be in the detail, and so that level of I can have a sensible conversation with someone about a new client or a new product feature or a new um service that we're offering. But do I need to know the nth degree of that at this point, when we're still in discovery phase? Probably not, and so being comfortable with some level of uncomfortableness is probably one of the key roles of being a founder as well, because if I know everything to the nth detail and I know exactly how it's going to work, unless I am the CTO of this product, I don't need to know exactly how it's working. I need my CTO to be fully aware that that's exactly how it's working, but I just need to know so that I can go and have conversations about it. I need to know how it's going to enhance us. I need to know the figures around it and the business case for why we're enhancing this product feature or why we're including a new service and the storytelling.

Mira Magecha: 20:45

So become a really compelling storyteller in terms of your founding business and the storytelling. So become a really compelling storyteller in terms of your founding business and the team around you. It will create an outward world of trust because people outside looking in will go oh, you're a great leader I want to work with, so I'm going to put you on my radar as an employer. And the people internally are also going to look at you and go oh, I've got the trust and I've got the ability to do what I need to do as well.

Anshika Arora: 21:11

Yeah, I really love that. Get comfortable with being uncomfortable. I feel like that should be the highlight of any learning that a founder is going to take from this podcast. Thank you so much, Mira, for talking to us all about leadership. It's been an absolute pleasure having you, and I think you've mentioned some really key insights and takeaways that are going to be helpful for everyone listening. As you know, on the bailout podcast, we have our three quick fire questions, so I'm going to start off by asking you who are three British Asians that are doing incredible work that you think the audience need to check out?

Mira Magecha: 21:47

So this was probably the most difficult question that I knew that was coming up. I would say Vishal Amin um. I love what he's doing, I love the fact that he's building until. I love the concept behind until and how the name came about as well. Um Sal Naseem um. If no one's checked him out, he is probably one of the most prolific writers on LinkedIn about racism at the moment, and especially south Asian racism. Um, so I can definitely check him out. And then someone I recently had on my podcast, Manisha Morgan, um. She's just doing a lot for Asian women of a certain age, so those in their mid 40s and above, and she's just really real and really natural in terms of the work that she does around nutrition and coaching amazing.

Anshika Arora: 22:33

We'll be sure to check them out. And how can people find out more about you and your company?

Mira Magecha: 22:37

So the business is called Play for Change, um, and I do leadership, coaching, mentoring, facilitation, speaking um. Obviously have the website, which I'm sure will be in the show notes, and then you can check me out on um LinkedIn, probably, and also I host my own podcast called class of their own, which is all around revealing human stories behind their name very cool, and you know that the bay is an ecosystem.

Anshika Arora: 23:04

Is there anything that our audience can do to help you?

Mira Magecha: 23:09

I think it's just engage. Come and tell me what you thought and if there's anything I suppose I can do in terms of leadership and help, then just reach out. Amazing Any final words from you? Leadership isn't as hard and as complicated as we make it, and I think my last view is be you when you're leading. Don't try and be this leader up here that you've seen. Try and be as authentic and as natural as you can be and be open in terms of who you are when you're leading.

Amardeep Parmar: 23:41

Thank you for watching. Don't forget to subscribe. See you next time.

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