Using Tech To Fight Teenage Self Harm w/ Kanu Batra l Speek Health

Kanu Batra: 0:00

The fact that something can have such a big impact on your life but it's not given the same importance. Like people talk so much about going to the gym, which I think is very important, but we don't talk about mental health as much and we don't do anything much about it. Like we call grumpy teenagers no, teenagers are not supposed to be grumpy. If they are grumpy, there might be something more to it. Our focus is on building a virtual treatment for self-harming behaviour for young people. We started with our first insight, which was that, when it comes to young people's mental health, it's about seeing the unseen. It is about working with the parent and helping them take care of their mental health while something goes on.

Amardeep Parmar: 0:42

Today on the podcast we have Kanu Batra, who is the co-founder of Speak, and they're breaking the teenage cycle of self-harm. Kanu's got a great story, having been brought up and raised in Agra, wanting to leave there, go and enter the big city which she did for university and then work her way up the corporate ladder very effectively, taking different opportunities along the way, including working in Singapore for over a decade, While in Singapore she founded a company which did well and gave her the taste of what she wanted to do now. She's always been passionate about teenage self-harm, addiction and all the troubles that come with that. And back by Zinc VC, she's now taking that on through her company, speak. I hope you enjoy this episode. I'm Amar from the BAE HQ and this podcast is powered by HSBC Innovation Banking. So great to have you here today. If you go right back to the beginning of the story, what did you want to be when you were growing up? What were your dreams? What were your ambitions?

Kanu Batra: 1:41

You know I read about this question and it has since then taken me to a very nostalgic place of everything I wanted to be, and I'm sure a lot of your guests say that I wanted to be a commercial pilot.

Kanu Batra: 1:53

It was something that I really wanted to be. The reasons I left it were not something I'm proud of. My mom at that point felt my mom has played a big part in my career and, like any Asian mom, felt my mom has played a big part in my career and, like any Asian mom and you know, her practicality was like you know, the kids that I never had would have got like you know would not be best with their life. So she's like oh no, I don't think that's a good career choice from that perspective. And at that point I was like, okay, you know what, like she anyway decides, so let her decide. You know, I just wanted to get out of the city I was living in and my whole goal at that point was I'd do a course which is not delivered in a university that's in my city why was that?

Amardeep Parmar: 2:32

Why did you leave the city?

Kanu Batra: 2:33

I wanted to go out and, like you know, just experience life in a very different way. I mean, I belong to Agra. Agra is a tier two city in India. It's a relatively big city from a population size perspective, but it's not a big city from a development perspective, right? So, like even till date, we don't have even malls or, like you know, anything like from that perspective. Yeah, I wanted to leave it because I wanted to try different things in life and I wanted to experience life on my own,

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Amardeep Parmar:

Where did you end up?

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Kanu Batra: 2:56

I ended up in Delhi, which was four hours from my city, right, but it's relatively bigger, so that was a good start. I then then ended up in Bangalore, which is further away.

Amardeep Parmar: 3:06

Which is for university as well.

Kanu Batra: 3:08

Yeah, so first university in Delhi, then in Bangalore, did another certificate program there, lived around in India, different cities, working there, and until I relocated and I was in a job where I was actually living six months out and six months in India, so that was quite nice. I live dated and I was in a job where I was actually living six months out and six months in India, so that was quite nice. I lived in France, I lived in Philadelphia, I was in Indonesia for some time. Aberdeen I lived there for a year, which was really interesting, and then I moved to Singapore for 10 years.

Amardeep Parmar: 3:40

So, with the university side, what did you end up studying? So you wanted to be a pilot. Was there anything related to that, or where did you go?

Kanu Batra: 3:47

You know as much as I had aspirations and I always wanted to be something like a commercial pilot, to a professor, to something. At that age it was the love of my life, my boyfriend and just moving on and enjoying life. That was priority.

Amardeep Parmar: 4:03

And then you moved on to Bangalore afterwards?

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Kanu Batra:

Yeah

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Amardeep Parmar:

And were you still studying a similar subject? Or did you change?

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Kanu Batra: 4:09

No, I got into after my engineering. I realized that, as much as I love, you know, the research side of things, I worked in a research lab for a year and I kind of realized that my niche or my like real inclination lies in in products and, like you know, markets, like how does health care impact market? And stuff which kind of comes from my upbringing because, um, you know, you throw a stone, in my family everybody is an entrepreneur, not the kind of entrepreneurs that we meet, uh, but they're small business owners.

Kanu Batra: 4:38

Um, my summer vacations were spent doing supply chain at my dad's factory, right, so, with that kind of training all my life and, just like you know, everything is all about opportunity and you know. So, yeah, that is how I realized that actually I have a lot of, you know, soft power in looking at research but thinking of how does it impact market and what would be the use case, or actually commercializing it. And I then joined a hedge fund to actually start doing market research for them and, like you know, analyzing products, pharma, clinical trials, to see what shares would go up and not, and that is where I ended up.

Amardeep Parmar: 5:13

So at that point you said there's lots of entrepreneurs within your family, small business owners. Did you think, like I want to do that one day? Was there any pressure to work with them as well?

Kanu Batra: 5:22

So, interestingly, the city I belong to when I was growing up. Even now there are no jobs. So, you know, being an entrepreneur is the way to be right. Uh, jobs, and especially multinationals, started coming to India 1990s, right, and also big cities, not Agra. So for me that was the way of being. So, like to the to your question, and also because, like you know, for personal reasons, I wanted to go back and settle in that city because of my boyfriend, then boyfriend right, everything was around that in that phase of life I was like, okay, I will, um, you know, do something, and like I have to do my business, so I'll think of it, right? So I had a couple of ideas. I wanted to do sustainable medical diagnostics and stuff like that. Uh, did it. Was there pressure to do something with the family? Yes, yes, like even now, my family expects me to, but no, they've made peace. I decided very long ago but they've made peace now that I won't come back.

Amardeep Parmar: 6:12

There's going to be some people listening who have that pressure right now, where maybe the family wants them to work with them, but they don't really want to do that. How did you manage that? How did you make sure that you had the boundaries there, but maintain a good relationship?

Kanu Batra: 6:24

Well, I think part of it, to be honest, is just the blessing of, uh, the unconditional love. Like I think you know, we talk about a lot of privilege in life, and one privilege that comes with certain communities and cultures is, like, no matter who and what I do, my parents are going to love me. Yeah, right, and I'm sure you, like you know, there is a very different kind of love and I always think that you know, like that is actually a privilege. It is, like you know, now that I work in young people's mental health, it is not what is the norm, and so you know, just knowing that that my parents can be upset with me they might be upset with me, but eventually they'll come around was enough for me, and I know that at the end of the day, they just want to see me happy so yeah, so I, like you know, unfortunately I do not have like how I created that you know I can't answer for but I think communication as well.

Kanu Batra: 7:14

Like I've always spoken to my parents about anything and everything I want to do, even like my career choices right now. For my mom, like you know, recently she mentioned to me that I used to be the most, uh, the wisest and the smartest. It wasn't.

Kanu Batra: 7:26

She was referring to my intellect yeah, that's where she's come down to. She was referring to my intellect in the past and I was like, interesting that she said when you were growing up you were the wisest and the most intelligent in your generation. I was like, okay, let's limit that, I'm not exploring that any further. I think what she meant was like you know, 40, not married, no kids, you know, and for my culture that's a big thing Doing your own business, leaving a good job and doing your business and, you know, being broke all the time. It's just like you know it doesn't fit her thinking of a good life.

Amardeep Parmar: 8:00

She mentioned a good job there, right, and you were in Singapore for every decade. Can you tell us about that? What were you doing there?

Kanu Batra: 8:06

Sure, I actually, in India, started working in this organization called International SOS. It's the world's largest healthcare services firm. I had one of my best careers since there, working there for 12 years, grew up the ladder quite a bit, from an analyst to actually head of business intelligence, and had several different jobs with them several different. So what is very interesting about that company is it is founder-led. So it's one of those business cases that people don't know. It's largely founder-led. Both the founders, very passionate organization and that's what I did with them Very different roles, setting up business processes to technology, to people, setting up departments, different offices with them, and that in a large way also changed my career trajectory. I must say there have been some really key people throughout my career who have been very pivotal in my growth and that organization I have a lot to say for. So it was a brilliant job, it paid well, it's meaningful work. You're working in healthcare.

Kanu Batra: 9:04

I do miss it every day.

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Amardeep Parmar:

You miss the as well. Because looking at that period, right, obviously, going from Agra to Delhi, to Bangalore, then Singapore, for a very extended period of time, how was that experience of, I guess, like you said, growing the ladder, but in a place that maybe wasn't home for you as well?

Kanu Batra: 9:25

Home is a feeling, I think, for you know, different reasons. I had an interesting childhood. I belong to a family where there's a lot of love towards me, but my parents had their own set of you know, issues, so wrapping that up there, which they're quite open about, like you know, you can't hide much of that. So I wasn't home when I was home and that is why you know when you ask the previous question, why did you want to leave? Right, so, and that is something I created on the go. So when Singapore happened, it was interesting I told my parents I'm relocating to Singapore and they were like okay, what does that mean? Because I used to do a lot of business trips. So they're like oh, when are you back? I was like no, no, no, I am moving. And they were like what does that mean? I said it's five hours instead of three, that's what it means by flight. So they were like okay, you know, and that's where we wrapped it up.

Amardeep Parmar: 10:11

Yeah, when you put it like that, yeah.

Kanu Batra: 10:18

I was like it's five hours. They were, it's you know when that's actually. That is as much thought I gave it to my relocation. Yeah, it did hit differently when I relocated, which is a different problem. The first time it hit really badly, but then subsequently, when I started relocating, a couple of times. Yeah, now I know that the first six months are off.

Amardeep Parmar: 10:38

And you mentioned, there's a few pivotal people in the organization. What do you think they taught you? What do they help you most with?

Kanu Batra: 10:44

They did not limit me, they did not look at me as a woman, they did not look at me as a person of color. They validated, you know, my abilities. They supported me through the journey. It was, I would say, a lot of role models that I missed I had came in very different shapes and forms. That's why, you know, when I read about what you're doing, it is very important for me, like in my family, all, all my cousins female cousins got married in their 20s. That was the norm to go next step. I'm blessed that my parents didn't think that was the case for me, but you know. So, role models was a difficult thing. Compromise and females is a big theme, right, and that's what it means to be a girl. And you know, I've grown up not being liked because I was not compromising.

Kanu Batra: 11:36

And I think, when I was in that organization and when I ventured out on my own, throughout my journey, even now, even in startups, in startups, right, um, even working with zinc as a venture builder, like you know, I always look at the soft support that comes versus the technique. I think technical support is easy to get right. You can buy it, you can get it. I think it is um, yeah, it is being in that space where you can be you without uh, and there's no limit to it and, as you said, you're there 12 years, very happy, but then you decided okay, now it's time to do something different.

Amardeep Parmar: 12:11

What? What made you leave that job, which you love so much?

Kanu Batra: 12:15

Oh, it was really difficult. Actually, the decision happened in year nine and it happened to thanks to one of my managers then who at some point told me you got to do something of your own. He's like you know, I didn't even name you. Come to my desk and you're like I'm done for the day, like you know, like we're not doing enough work, and you know there was a lot of, I think I was uh which is also my personality that I, you know, at some point I was like like I'm in myself, was very frustrated, and it's not the organization, the people were lovely, people were, people were happy, people had a work-life balance. I'm a workaholic. That's my problem.

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Amardeep Parmar:

Right, too easy yeah.

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Kanu Batra: 12:47

Yeah, I was like, oh, this is too easy. And you know, when you have 10 years in an organization, it's people management Then you like, you know, I used to call myself a glorified leave approver. I'm like that's what I decided to then actually start my master's in LSE because I was like, okay, you know, at this point I'm emotional, let me not take a plunge. And it is big right, because I am on a visa in Singapore, so making any decision would mean that it would impact where I live, right, so like, if I'm not doing my job. So because of those kind of you know, technical technicalities, I took my time, did my master's.

Kanu Batra: 13:24

Like I said, entrepreneurship was, is a way of being in from where I come. So I think for me it was kind of fitting in. And also, you reach that point in your career where, okay, you're not working for money anymore. You've earned that, uh, you've done good works, but now what you're looking for is, uh, you know, solving that one thing that irks you.

Kanu Batra: 13:41

And I think that that passion around the problem and it is interesting in my journey because I left my job wanting to start something like you know, wanting to work on young people's mental health for India. I got an opportunity to work with a very skilled scientist on a diagnostics business and I was like, okay. You know, my entrepreneurial mind was like, okay, this is a good opportunity, I can start with that. It didn't work out. It is so hard that if you are not passionate about the problem, no matter how great the opportunity is, it won't work out. Because entrepreneurship is not a job and I learned that the hard way. After leaving a fabulous job and, you know, losing my visa and everything, I was like brilliant.

Amardeep Parmar: 14:21

And I think that's one interesting thing that you said, because people often talk about the skills they have and this and this, but it doesn't matter how good you are, no, entrepreneurship is hard and you've got to be obsessed with that problem because otherwise you're going to give up, and it's. It doesn't mean you're a bad person. It doesn't mean that. It just means that you don't have the right. Is it found? A problem fit right?

Kanu Batra:

Exactly

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Amardeep Parmar:

And if you've got that right, you can weather the storm, but you can keep going

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Kanu Batra:

On the hard days, you still gotta love what you're doing, and that only comes when you love the problem, because otherwise you're like, oh, you know what, I have these three job offers coming, or I have this opportunity or I have that.

Kanu Batra: 14:53

And that is why I came back to young people's mental health, because I was like, okay, no, this is why I left my job and this is all I should be doing. Everything else is great and you know. But, as you know and that is where I think it's also that classic difference between like that's when you know that, okay, you have that heart of an impact entrepreneur, because I was like, okay, you know what, the excitement of the fact that it is actually a really like my previous venture was a really big opportunity. It was diagnostics for young people, but in allergy and stuff, and it's still meaningful and purpose. Like you know, you're in health care and all that, but it was not the problem that I wanted to solve.

Amardeep Parmar: 15:28

And why is it? This is a problem you want to solve. Why is it? Young people's mental health?

Kanu Batra: 15:32

I mean, growing up, I, my brother, had developed drug addiction and I have recently lost a cousin to drug addiction. Drug addiction has played a theme in my life and I've seen the firsthand impact of it on the family. And you know, this is back in the day in India, when psychiatry and psychology were dealt with very differently. So I think for me the fact that something that is can have such a big impact on your life but it's not given the same importance, like people talk so much about going to the gym, which I think is very important, but we don't talk about mental health as much and we don't do anything much about it. Like we call grumpy teenagers. No, teenagers are not supposed to be grumpy. If they're grumpy there might be something more to it.

Kanu Batra: 16:22

And I'm not saying we need to look at anything and everything with a microscopic lens, but you know there are certain things. Like you know, addiction is a symptom. It happens because of and I could sense why it's happening because of the chaos that there was in our family, family and you know I was young, like I was too young to kind of put it in that order, but I was like it's not him the problem, the problem is the environment, and we've got to work on it.

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Amardeep Parmar:

We hope you're enjoying the episode so far.

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Amardeep Parmar: 16:49

We just want to give a quick shout out to our headline partners, HSBC innovation banking. One of the biggest challenges for so many startups is finding the right bank to support them, because you might start off and try to use a traditional bank, but they don't understand what you're doing. You're just talking to an ai assistant or you're talking to somebody who doesn't really understand what it is you've been trying to do. HSBC have got the team they've built out over years to make sure they understand what you're doing. They've got the deep sector expertise and they can help connect you with the right people to make your dreams come true. So if you want to learn more, check out hsbcinnovationbanking.com. So okay, you know you've got the background and the career you've had. You know you've got this problem you want to solve. How do those first steps go? How are you going to solve this problem? What were the first steps you took to get that in motion?

Kanu Batra: 17:36

So you know, when, um, when I started reflecting on what next like okay, you know the um, the job was going great, but it wasn't, um, adding that meaning and purpose to life I started looking out on what I want to. Like. I knew I wanted to do something and how I want to go about it. And that is when I was exposed to this concept of accelerators and venture builders. Right, I actually quite liked the idea from day one. I just loved the concept. I thought it makes practical sense, because I loved working in an organization with people.

Kanu Batra: 18:09

Right, I realized, because I was trying to do it on my own and I tried a couple of times on the side of my job it didn't happen. It's too lonely, like you know. Sit on your laptop and you know, you create an experiment. There are some people who are fabulous at it. By no means am I saying that that's the only way at it. By no means am I saying that that's the only way, but for me, this way of actually finding your community and tribe and building with people made it. So I think that was a decision that I made very clearly that I will not venture out on my own because I had given it a couple of shots and I will start building it with somebody. Now it was a matter of finding the right venture builder or the program, and that's when I found out about Zinc.

Amardeep Parmar: 18:50

Yeah, so one of the interesting things we have as well is that a lot of people come to us and looking for a co-founder and saying how do you connect or how do you find people? And there's always different programs and we try to make sure, if we're recommending a program, that we know what's good about it, how people experience on that as well. So obviously you've had a good experience with Z. Why was it zinc and what have they done so well for you?

Kanu Batra: 19:08

So I have been part of another accelerator before, which is a global one. Uh, I did not enjoy that refrain from taking the name, but I did not enjoy that. You can cut it. It was Antler, but it was. I got selected in that or got the funding.

Kanu Batra: 19:22

So that was not like I'm not a, it's not like you know. But I got through and I was like there was no focus, like it was a machine for a VC model. It was not entrepreneurship for me. For me, I was like, okay, everything that you're doing here in the list for me doesn't fit Right. It was very easy to crack right. You can do the drill and you go and I'm like who's the taking? Where? Right? Um, on the other side, when I actually looked at zinc the fact that it was mission focused first, and for me, you know the fact that they had the young people's mental health as a mission I was like, oh my god, this is a sign right, so that? Um. But then I also delved deeper into understanding how, like they have a method. They look at research now, obviously, no, obviously no accelerator, no venture builder is going to do it for you. Ultimately, you are the entrepreneur and actually, if you expect them to do it, then don't do it. Yeah, right. Simply right.

Kanu Batra: 20:15

So it was interesting and I think because when I joined we were a group of ATN there was very interesting expectations of you know what a venture builder should do. I was like, no, you don't want them to do it, you want your own, you know like style of doing it. So I think that the fact that they like I think and that would be very important for anybody who's listening to say that they have a whole ecosystem of experts who get very engaged in your process without any, you know, incentive, right, I think that's powerful. Like, imagine you're an immigrant in the uk, you don't know people, you're a person of color and you know, like, my accent, like you know, half of the time I have to explain again what I'm saying, rightfully so, because you know I. But having said that, uh, you know I, here I go. I have a group, like I have experts, 100 experts that I can reach out to. I just have to say that I am from zinc, right and right, and that introduction means so much. They would give me that like, even till date, there are so many people.

Kanu Batra: 21:10

I mean, you know, entrepreneurship has been a really humbling journey from a perspective of like, just learning a different side of humanity. You see very different humanity in corporates, right, I think that's what organizational structures do to you. I don't think it's a company or just the people. I think it's that environment of scarcity that there's only one role that people can apply for In entrepreneurship. It's each to their own, but people come and support a lot and I think finding that group with Zinc, the Zinc team, right, I just like, yeah, I think.

Kanu Batra: 21:44

I don't know if I have a bias, but I feel like it worked out. I think they could do a little more, and I don't know if they're accelerators or incubators who have a lot of mentors who are founders. That is something that I feel that is missing, because even the one that I was part of previously, none of their mentors are founders. So I'm like how, and that, I think, is a missing piece. I would say that Zinc can also improve but others. So I like the fact that they have a method, their mission, focus, so and um to bring advisors and the team is easy to work with.

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Amardeep Parmar:

And did you meet your co-founder through Zinc as well.?

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Kanu Batra:

Yes

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Amardeep Parmar: 22:16

So could you tell us about your co-founder and why using the dynamics work?

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Kanu Batra: 22:20

So I've had two co-founding journeys with them. I'll talk about the second one. The first one went really sour, so yeah there's lessons to learn from that as well.

Amardeep Parmar: 22:28

We can go into afterwards.

Kanu Batra: 22:32

Yeah, um, I met Mike.It was interesting because my co-founder was actually like the friend that I made that I never thought I'll team up with, right, so I made you know we were friends and it was like okay, yeah, I know I don't think we'll team up and we founded our own own, like you know teams.

Kanu Batra: 22:46

We both got selected, we both moved to the next stage and we both were in some ways unhappy in our co-founding relationships. It was more like we were venting out to each other, then realized we should team up and that is how, and which was nice, because, you know, after a year you were like okay, she business partner, right, I'm looking more at emotions and talking more about that than contracts, right, and also, that is like for me it's very difficult to crack that recipe in any program that you join. Uh, just because, like, how do you build? But but, like you know, the first time I met her, like her observation was that I intimidated her the first time we said hello and I was like, yeah, no, I was just eating my lunch and I was not listening much. She's like you were just so dismissal. I was like I was just eating my lunch.

Amardeep Parmar: 23:30

It's always funny how because I have this sometimes right where, with what I do, I meet thousands of people and sometimes I'm just having a bad day and or I'm just I've got something, and then that person will take that snippet of five seconds and then expand it Right. So it's always that really difficult thing of where you can't be perfect all the time and it's just, yeah, trying to, it's also being forgiving to other people, right. It's because sometimes I'm like, oh, this person is really rude. It's like I actually just had a really bad day and it's just I who's going to do what?

Amardeep Parmar: 24:07

Who's going to be in charge of this? Who's going to be in charge of that? How did you do that?

Kanu Batra: 24:11

So I think my co-founder as well, but I was also both of us were very clear of teaming up with somebody who's complementary skills, because I know that's the biggest feud you have in.

Kanu Batra: 24:30

You know, it was very clear from day one. In fact, we had a third co-founder also. We got along well, like the person that she teamed up with uh, you know he as well and he was the CTO. Like it didn't work out. That's fine, but you know, like we're still friends, but you know, it was very like for me actually that combination of three was very exciting. I went in to say, actually you know what business, science and technology, perfect, and I still feel three is a number that we don't see as often as two, but I think it can be very powerful if three people connect together.

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Amardeep Parmar:

So you mentioned about the relationship beforehand which turns sour, and we don't.

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Amardeep Parmar: 25:03

It's going to see much detail of that, but it's more about what did you learn from that and what could people listening now who are looking for a co-founder what mistakes can they learn from or red flags they should look out for?

Kanu Batra: 25:13

It's interesting because now I'll contradict what I said in the previous one, right? So I think I look for complementary skills that worked, that I would say still would have worked out. What did not, uh, work out was that I did not look at as much personal alignment, right, and I think I think it bottles down to that. This is a partnership, this is not a job. They're not your clique, right, because you like especially if you worked for that long you come with a mindset of saying, oh, yeah, you know what, like, we don't have to be best friends together. Yeah, yeah, you'll spend a lot of time together and you might not have to be best friends, but you know you'll have to support each other, you'll have to cater to each other's emotional needs, personal needs, and that will become part of the journey and that you know, even now, when I and my co-founder have, like a bad day, it's largely around like how one made the other feel, yeah, it's not about technical. So if that is the most important thing, then I think I went wrong in my first thing because I didn't look for that alignment and not to blame anybody else, but I think that alignment becomes important.

Kanu Batra: 26:11

It's very difficult when you're in a program and when you're in a structured setup or otherwise, like, especially if you're going to like, because you know we all mask in the beginning, we all have that like. You know, we all have a social personality versus a personal personality. Um, our perceptions are different of work-life balance. Our perceptions are different personality Our perceptions are different of work-life balance. Our perceptions are different of scale. Our perceptions are different of how we want to approach anything and you only get to know it. So it's difficult. I don't have a formula of undoing it, but I know where I missed here.

Amardeep Parmar: 26:39

It seems because with me and my co-founder it's a massive fluke that it still works, and I think a lot of that comes down to we both respect each other's priorities, so whenever there's something which is to do with his family, he needs to go for something, for that, then he goes and there's no question, and we're able to give each other that space.

Amardeep Parmar: 26:56

And, like I said, I think one thing that's good when you have those different skill sets is that you're not really going to question her research because you know that she knows that better, and her research because you know that she knows that better. And then that's the thing where I think is where's overlapping skills? Yeah, that's where they can become a bit more like well, I want to do it this way and you want to do that way, and it's just about trying to make sure you listen to what they're saying, I guess as well yeah and obviously now since you've got this new relationship, can you tell us some of the highlights of what's happened so far in this journey?

Kanu Batra: 27:24

I mean the journey, so not the word, but it's been, you know, on quite a positive trajectory. We teamed up, we had our third co-founder leave, but very amicably we still all three of us maintained the friendship which is usually very important, because these things leave a, you know, very difficult, very bad taste in your mouth. So I think after that we managed to start our you know like what we conceptualized with, launched it in the market, did a B2C launch, did a B2B, managed to get an NHS contract, which was really big for us, closed up. We seed round and kind of like enjoying the ride on the go. As much as there are difficult days, I'll not shy away, like you know. Yeah, like I think to the point that you said that it's the overlaps, but I think it also bottoms down to working styles and that is also difficult to crack. So I think the highlights have been like the journey of speak and, you know, every few days, when we receive that one feedback from the user, if a parent comes and tells us their child has stopped self-harming, right, I think this just totally changes.

Kanu Batra: 28:27

I think and that is what we love about what we are doing, I think, with Ness and myself, one of the things that works out is, I've noticed, is that our choice from a value perspective comes out to be the same. As much as we might disagree with the process right, whether it's choosing the people right. Disagree with the process right, whether it's choosing the people right, Whether it is how to deal with the client or the contract or something like it, all bottles down to like a very deep alignment of what should be done and how it should be done, and I think that is, for me, one of the big highlights that the process will not be same. Like then you're asking for a clone, right, the process will be different. But do we end up, like, agreeing on the same hire? I'm like, perfect, right, it's. We contradict each other, like in the sense we challenge each other, but we're like, you know, this culture alignment, this value alignment, those things matter, yeah and obviously because you're making an impact for your business as well.

Amardeep Parmar: 29:19

I think one of the hardest things for many people doing impact business is working on that model of how do you make it sustainable, profitable business in the long term so you can keep doing good work while also making an impact, and I think a lot of people struggle with this, but they're trying to understand how to get that going. How have you built that out? So you obviously know what the problem you want to tackle is how did you build a product which is both a business but also makes an impact?

Kanu Batra: 29:42

I think there are two sides to it now, I think because of the good presence of charities in the UK, right, this is a very big question. From where I come, it is not a question I think that was one baseline inhibition that I did not have about impact. Having said that, for me, impact meant bringing the cost down right, making it more accessible, and if you're doing that by the nature of it, then you don't mind the margins, right, like because you're like, yeah, but this is less than the status quo. It is way less than the status like today. Our cost is like eight times less than the status quo. I feel very comfortable despite that. We have 50 cross margin, like you know, at a product level, and I'm like, I'm very, very comfortable with that. I have no problem, right, but that was one of the design principles of a solution, right, that impact would not mean, like we can't create impact at scale if we don't look at the cost.

Amardeep Parmar: 30:35

Yeah

Kanu Batra: 30:37

Right. So I think, because we approached it from that perspective, it came in quite naturally and organically because it was one of the key element of change that we wanted to do. Now, it might not apply to all products and services, but in our case it did. Again, that is where, you know, my alignment on things is pretty spot on to say what we need to change. You know, we could have built the same product for an ultra luxury market or, you know, high income group. We were not excited about it. So you know, that is where the impact part came, came and then I never had a second thought about like, oh, should we be even making one pound on it? Of course we should be making one pound on it, because how would we make sure that it's accessible to everybody else?

Amardeep Parmar: 31:20

Yeah, exactly because a lot of people, I guess, where they're trying so hard not to make it get people to pay for it, for example then you can't actually scale that. No, so you make less of an impact. Yeah, and what's it so if you talk us through the product itself? So obviously your mission is to try to help young people's mental health. How do you do that? What does the product do for people who aren't aware of that?

Kanu Batra: 31:41

So our focus is on building a virtual treatment for self-harming behavior for young people. We started with our first insight, which was that, when it comes to young people's mental health, it's about seeing the unseen right. It is about working with the parent and helping them take care of their mental health while, something goes on, take care of the rest of the family and the recovering child, and that's the first function of the product that we focused on. The way the product works is that it is a tech-enabled service. Now, this is also another thing that I kind of found interesting, because my career experience like I've always worked in tech-enabled services and I've been a big fan of it, like as to what technology can add there.

Kanu Batra: 32:20

However, when I actually relocated to UK, I realized that there was a lot of underestimation for this. It's a model that works in the US very well right, especially because it's insurance driven. They like the human aspect to it, and you know that is what works in US, but in UK, because the market size is small, it's always gone down to like oh, are you going to build an app that would? Yes, there will be a companion app, but that's not the main product, right, and it was interesting to like, you know. So that is something also, and I think I give it to the market changing to say that investors' mindset around what kind of products and solutions would work. Like not everything is going to be SaaS right and I wasn't building a SaaS solution for that perspective, but I think tech-enabled services are massively scalable.

Kanu Batra: 33:10

So the product basically is a community of parents supporting other parents which is moderated clinically. It is a psychoeducation program for parents which is personalized, based on biopsychosocial assessment. Basically, we understand a family's needs, we recommend them. Psychological support right for the parents, focused on the parents. That's the first feature. And this is delivered, one by means of short form content and group therapy, and it's all delivered virtually. But, like I said, it has human intervention. Technology enables um, it amplifies the outcome. It is not a replacement for human beings.

Amardeep Parmar:

And obviously, when you're trying to solve this problem, you've got all the different solutions potentially coming up and you're saying, okay, how do you? You've got all the different solutions potentially coming up and you're saying, ok, how do we scale this? Were there any pivots made along the way where maybe you were going down a certain path and then realised maybe this isn't the right thing? And how did you manage those pivots?

Kanu Batra: 33:59

Oh yeah, we firstly didn't start with self-harm because we went broad into young people's mental health and we were like, ok, anxiety, depression, you know, these are the areas we want to look at. We realized that when it comes to young people's mental health, there is a very different appetite for action. There's an appetite for information that parents have, but the need for action only comes in critical cases. And that is where we realized that, you know, and also it was one of those areas that was exciting us to say that it has the least research. And that is where we realized that, you know, and also it was one of those areas that was exciting us to say that it has the least research. And then we started focusing on self-harm to say it has least research and it is where parents struggle the most.

Kanu Batra: 34:37

Right, so that was one like from being a generalized mental health. We also looked at looking at text-based and chat-based functions and we realized that isn't working for families, it's um. And then we, like you know, we kind of iterated. We started with voice-based um therapy, where you send voice notes with the therapist. We went to text-based and then we actually landed on a service model that works and obviously made quite a lot of impact already.

Amardeep Parmar: 35:06

But what's the dream for this? What? Where do you hope to be sitting here in five years time, ten years time, and telling me what your biggest wins have been?

Kanu Batra: 35:13

I want to be at a place, like with speak, where any family where a young person struggles with self-harm has access to high quality care that works right in like within their means. I think one of the things that has frustrated me in mental health is that there's brilliant science that exists, right. However, care is not accessible. What we keep seeing is that repeat loop of CBT, which is good for certain cases. I'm not belittling the particular intervention but what I'm saying is there are high intensity interventions available, but they're not accessible. They are kept for, like when things get worse and like are we really waiting for things to get worse Then like? We designed a system where only when things are bad that you and I think it's high time that we bring those to the forefront, and a lot of other companies are doing some brilliant work in this space. We are not the first ones. In fact, we are following right. We are not leading the market in this, and I think I'm very comfortable with that. I think it's just like we need to do a little more of that.

Amardeep Parmar: 36:14

So thank you so much for sharing your story today. We're going to get into a quick fire questions now. So first one is who are three British Asians you

Amardeep Parmar: 36:23

think are doing incredible work and you'd love to shout them out?

Kanu Batra: 36:26

Three founders. Joly Zou, she's working on ProRizon it's a mind and a body solution. With the fabulous Dr Claire Stewart. Foong, she's working on Matchable and I love what she's doing and I really like the approach that she's taking there. And the third one is I want to say two people, but I'll say one Dr. Abhinav Bhansali. He is working on Joey. It's a pediatric care solution. I love what they're doing and quite excited about that team as well.

Amardeep Parmar: 36:55

Yeah awesome, and if people want to find out more about what you're doing, what speak health is doing, where should they go to?

Kanu Batra: 37:00

lets-speek.com.

Amardeep Parmar: 37:03

Awesome, and is there anything you need help with or anything the company needs help with that somebody listening today might be able to reach out to you and help you with we've got the most help by such introduction?

Kanu Batra: 37:13

So I will just leave it at a note that if self-harm is a mission that you want to solve for in any capacity, either by joining us as a talent, or by connecting us with a trust or a parent, either way, just get in touch.

Amardeep Parmar: 37:25

Thank, you very much and have you got any final words?

Kanu Batra: 37:28

Thank you for doing this and thank you for creating this movement that does not exist, but I'm sure every British Asian person, whether immigrant or local, would have thought of it.

Kanu Batra: 37:39

Thank you.

Amardeep Parmar: 37:41

Thank you for watching. Don't forget to subscribe. See you next time.

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