Using Business Psychology to Scale and Exit Two Multi-Million Dollar Companies w/ Jyoti Patel l Red Rickshaw and FeastBox

Jyoti Patel : 0:00

95 to 99% of buying. Purchasing decisions are made subconsciously. A lot of the things you end up doing in marketing, a lot of the strategies you employ, you don't actually realize that the customer there's so many other subconscious factors that determine whether somebody's going to buy from you. My first love was definitely psychology. I noticed that it was at  the time business psychology, or organizational psychology, was very much directed towards big corporations, not so much the you know startup entrepreneurial journey. Power of psychology is the fact that it brings something that's in the background into awareness for you to be able to help the buyer make the right decisions, to help the buyer make the right decisions.

Amardeep Parmar: 0:47

Today's guest is Jyoti Patel, who is the ex-co-founder of Red Rickshaw and Feastbox and she's now angel invests and helps other startups to grow and succeed. Jyoti's got an interesting story where she went through the management consulting route, originally went to Stratis Consulting and then, after finding that she really struggled to get ingredients she needed to create authentic meals, she decided why doesn't she do something about that? At the beginning it was hard and you can see all the struggles she had right at the beginning stages before being able to grow and expand rapidly and getting a huge amount of orders, being able to expand the team, go into different areas and internationally, to then working out how she's going to exit this business and what's her next steps. I really hope you enjoy this story.

Amardeep Parmar: 1:33

I'm Amar from the BAE HQ and this podcast is powered by HSBC Innovation Banking. Great to have you here today and it's been a long time in the making and you've done so many different things now and you said you've had three different careers. But when you're as a kid growing up, what did you want to be? What were your ambitions?

Amardeep Parmar: 2:01

Oh wow. So many. I mean I wanted to be an astronaut, an FBI agent. I mean I think you know  when you're that age, you're just getting influenced. I think I still watch too many X-Files.

Jyoti Patel : 2:03

So I wanted to be an FBI agent, but I mean, I would say that my first love was definitely psychology. Just, you know nature of growing up in a big family and you know, at the time, like you know, my mom, you know, being from India the only holidays we ever used to have was also just going to India. So not only was I surrounded by people 24-7 when we used to go to India, I mean, and you know you'll probably remember your first trip to India it's fairly overwhelming and I think, you know, I think there's a whole different experiences that happened where you just kind of it just hits home. So when I first went to India, as you can expect, you're like, oh my God, how can people you know live like this, et cetera. And then you know I've got almost like 30 to 40 cousins, but despite you know all of the downside of what you see, I mean people were still smiling, they were happy, they were very joyful.

Jyoti Patel : 3:07

So I always used to wonder why, how do why people act the way they do, um, and what is, what is happiness? And it always kind of you know, it was very kind of introspective out of from a very young age, just by the nature of being surrounded by people, um, and so I always knew that that was something that I was just. I wasn't very academic, um, and I didn't grow up in a very academic house, like you know. The thing that we would talk about wasn't like hey, have you done your homework? How was school? It was what did you eat? Who did you speak to? It was very, very different. So, yeah, I think it was just like understanding human behavior was, I think, my first passion, and then I think.

Amardeep Parmar: 

Did you go on to study that?

Jyoti Patel : 3:40

Yes, I did, yeah, I did, yeah, I did, and I think, and I always knew at an early age that I would love business as well and I think, going back to this India experience, you know this is one time, so this is the very first time. So you know, I wore these particular, you know, like jeans or trousers, and this was back in I don't know what 2030, over 30 years ago, and this was in like a, not in the main city, you know, like Mumbai or anywhere. It was like in Bhajanagar, so Gujarat area. Yeah, I, literally, you know you can go to India, go pick out your material during the day, go and find a tailor and by the evening they'll come and deliver it to you. You know what you want. So I had something made like similar to my trousers or whatever I had. Then, um, lo and behold, so they come and deliver it to me the very next day. That same design and print was up in like five shops in, you know, in on on the main, like shopping area, and then by the end of the week, there were people wearing this particular type and I was like, how did this? And I was like, how did this happen? So I was always, always very fascinated with business. And you know you, just making something from nothing, I think, is a real skill and you'll see entrepreneurs, you know, in India, real entrepreneurs, who actually know overnight how to build a business, and they go and do it and you know they're happy. So I think they were like very influential aspects of my life when I was growing up. And then, yeah, great, growing coming, you know, coming back to the UK, like being with my family, like I said, it was okay.

Jyoti Patel : 5:13

When it came time to choosing a course, I was like I well, how do I know what I want to do for the rest of my life? I mean, that's just uh, you know, how can anyone know unless you're like you know that's extra special and you really do know. But I knew I loved people, so I studied psychology, um, and I think that's where I, you know it just took a life of its own really. I just, I actually, even before university, I actually also did it for a level, so it was, you know, kind of studied it for over a decade by that point.

Jyoti Patel : 5:43

So, um, just loved understanding, um, human behavior, understanding, you know, behaviors at home, whatever it is, and then I kind of took that passion of psychology and then I was like I knew what I wanted to be. I want to be a psychologist. This is what I'll do for the rest of my life, so much. So is quite funny that I again not coming from a family where we, you know, our priorities weren't really academic but it was more like happiness and food. Like I even turned out an offer from Oxford because they did psychology with physiology and I was like, oh, that's not straight psychology, that's not pure. I want to go.

Jyoti Patel : 6:19

Obviously, in hindsight I'm like that's questionable, but, um, yeah, I went and went and did that, um, for for three years at university.

Amardeep Parmar: 

So obviously then going into university studying this psychology which you're really passionate about, yeah, at some point you then have to start thinking about what's the next career step, right? So obviously, in actual things, I can be a psychologist, I'm gonna be a therapist, something like that. But you didn't necessarily go down that path to begin with. What made you decide to go into the career you first did after university?

Jyoti Patel : 6:47

Yeah. So I think, going back to my passion for business and psychology, I was a business, I became a business psychologist, so I knew it was. I didn't want to become necessarily a counselor or a health psychologist. I think that was maybe too too far apart from where I wanted to be, um, but I saw business psychologists as marrying my passion for business with marrying my passion for like with people and understanding human behavior.

Jyoti Patel : 7:15

So as I was studying um it yeah, it was very much, you know my mind was was very set on I want to become a business psychologist by the time I graduated, which is what I then did go and do. Then I went and did my master's in business psychology and I then went and practiced as a business psychologist.

Amardeep Parmar: 7:36

And obviously, having that dream for such a long time when you were a business psychologist, did you enjoy it? Did you enjoy that role at that time of your life? I did?

Jyoti Patel : 7:43

I did. But then I also became a little bit. I would say. I don't think boredom is the right word, but I have this once I know something, I get bored pretty quickly. So then I'm like I need continuous challenges. And so, after kind of doing quite a few organizational psychology projects, I noticed that it was at the time business psychology or organizational psychology was very much directed towards big corporations, not so much the startup entrepreneurial journey, because it was all mainly around leadership, productivity, know ways on applying that in a corporate setting. And I was like, okay, this is fantastic, but I'm not getting to.

Jyoti Patel : 8:30

You know, how do you build a business? What is actually business? You know you're able to kind of have a you know top down view of business from a you know people perspective, but it didn't give you how does a business work? And I think that just kept calling back to me thinking but how does a business work? And I think that's that just kept calling back to me thinking. But how does a business work, what you know? How is it set up?

Amardeep Parmar: 8:48

And it's obviously you had that. That's the first stage of your career in many ways, right, yeah, and when did this ideas of I'm going to build my own thing start to come into play, or where do those first ideas come from, the first seeds?

Jyoti Patel : 9:00

Yeah, so, and I think that was then joining the world of management, consulting. That I did, and I did that over the course of a decade and loved it. What I gained from that was amazing because I got a picture of what good looks like in a business. Obviously, you know at that stage, when you're a consultant, you see everything You've got in, you know the HR department, you've got IT department. You kind of understand how the cogs come together. And then you do client work, which is always problem focused, and you're either helping them make money or you're helping them save money. So it was an eye opener because it was like, right, okay, I really know a how businesses work and b, like the type of problems you get, as you know that you kind of get shipped in to go and solve. And so that then started getting me, you know, all excited about. Okay, I'm getting step closer. I know I've worked in various different departments. I know what business could look like.

Jyoti Patel : 9:55

Yeah, so it was very much so, um, I I actually fell pregnant, um, and I was also, at the same time, very frustrated in my career in that you know I Again going back to you know you're really good at what you do. And then you think what next? And you know it was a very comfortable, very lucrative career. I was already having that I had. But it was just the sheer fact that, you know, I became pregnant and I had a terrible experience with going grocery shopping and going back to the foodie that I am, I was just like, oh, this is frustrating and I need to do something. And I just kept thinking in the back of my head, oh, my god, I'm gonna do this when I've got kids.

Jyoti Patel : 10:42

And you know, shopping for Asian groceries was quite a horrendous experience. You know you, you turn up and you know you worry about your car being dented on because it's like, you know, the car, the car parks are so like cramped, but then you know the shelves are empty, not the freshest of ingredients, and then carrying like 10 kg bags of rice and spices back and it's just like, how am I going to manage that with children? And eating Asian food was like very much part of me and I couldn't, you know and know, and I, you know, for a long time in fact, just to avoid that shopping experience, I used to just buy all these other vegetables and put lots of spices, and I'm sure everyone has done that, but it's like you miss the actual authentic, you know Asian food. So I think that frustration, and then I was probably just a little bit crazy, you know thinking right, I need to do something, I'm pregnant and I need to have a solution.

Jyoti Patel : 11:35

So that's kind of how you know, my my cog started ticking and thinking about business.

Amardeep Parmar: 

And so it's interesting because obviously you've got so much experience working with other businesses and, like you said, you can see that level of what makes a good business, what makes a lot of businesses fail as well, and then trying to implement them to your own business. So you can see the problem. You know it's a problem that affects you. What were the first steps you took to try to see if you could actually make a business out of this and see if you could go somewhere?

Jyoti Patel : 12:02

It was very much initially. You know, your first thought of having a business is right, okay, I know I want this, but does somebody else want this? Is it actually worth making a business out of? And you know many VCs, entrepreneurs, will talk about product market fit eventually. But before you even do that, you need to make sure that it's a viable business, that there's going to be a demand for right.

Jyoti Patel : 12:27

So initially I was just like it was, you know, also inspired by Off the Bandwagon of Ocado at the time. So I'm going, I kind of entered this startup world before there was a startup world almost it was back in 2010. And I noticed with Ocado, it was like the ease of grocery shopping. I was like inspired by that business model and I thought, okay, there's obviously, definitely I'm not going to go and do a bricks and mortar business. So what is the next best thing? Then, being inspired by, obviously, online grocery and how popular it was becoming, I was like, let's try this. Okay, what do you need? You just need a website. Okay, you know, obviously it's a learning experience back then and you just kind of do as much research that you can whilst kind of being in a full-time job, and then that's kind of how I initially got started. It was like, okay, you know, get a website, let's try and understand what type of products might sell, and it was all based on things I liked.

Jyoti Patel : 13:25

Initially. It was all based on let me see if this is going to work and if other people have this pain point. Is it a pain point worth solving and is this pain point actually going to make money? So, you know, I think the whole business context aspect comes into it. Where is it a passion? Because not all businesses should be built on passion, because they're not all viable. So is it actually going to make money? So I think, from the very beginning, I was always very focused on is this, you know, and in all honesty, it was going to be something where I thought it's going to be a pension business? Is this a side hustle? You know, let's carry on. I've got a really good career. Is this something that I can eventually retire off? Just do something small on the side? And so that's kind of how it started.

Amardeep Parmar: 14:07

We hope you're enjoying the episode so far. We just want to give a quick shout out to our headline partners, hpc Innovation Banking. One of the biggest challenges for so many startups is finding the right bank to support them, because you might start off and try to use a traditional bank, but they don't understand what you're doing. You're just talking to an AI assistant or you're talking to somebody who doesn't really understand what it is you've been trying to do. Hbcc have got the team they've built out over years to make sure they understand what you're doing. They've got the deep sector expertise and they can help connect you with the right people to make your dreams come true.

Amardeep Parmar: 14:38

So if you want to learn more, check out hbc innovation bankingcom. Looking at that as well, because I've got two sides to the problem right. One is how do you get people to find the website, to buy products from the website? Yeah, they've also get to get. Got to get the stock in the first place. And how do you pick the right products, it said, and which of those sides you think was harder at the beginning to get right?

Jyoti Patel : 14:58

it's. It's quite funny because when I first started there was no, you know, I think there's Facebook, but there was. It was very early days, so I think Facebook entered the UK late, like 20, 2005, 2006. So again I'm going, you know, when you didn't have social media advertising, and I remember for the very first time trying Facebook as advertising. So even before that stage, I had already started selling, and that was mainly through Google, which was the main online platform for online selling and online advertising.

Jyoti Patel : 15:31

So I wouldn't say what kind of led to our growth would have been word of mouth and Google advertising, but also by the sheer fact that it was novel. We were the pioneers of Asian grocery delivery in the UK. So it was the fact that a lot of people, it turns out, had this pain point and just the fact that this service existed, just, you know, it just accelerated. And I think and going back to your question of product warehouse so, yeah, you, I mean and I think this is the thing with business is that you always got to save up, you always need some money to start a business, right, and so you've invested in in.

Jyoti Patel : 16:14

I actually did, embarrassingly go and, like you know, spend my weekends in in these shops, in these asian grocery shops, and seeing what people picked up, literally taking pictures of shelves, um, looking at pricing, looking at what people walked out the door with, um, I did that during my lunch times. I was based in farringdon and I think there was a can't remember what the high street is just behind there. So literally going there in my lunch time and taking all the pictures, uploading it, looking at the prices, so, yeah, that's how it all started. Then I initially brought it and then rented a warehouse very, very small warehouse I think it was in Wembley to start off, start off. And again, I think the journey was that I'm in a full-time, you know a full-time career. Who's going to do the packing, who's going to do the picking? So all of that. I then did end up hiring very early stage just because it was a D2C business model.

Amardeep Parmar: 17:11

How did you find that first hire? Because I think, well, we're doing that right now. As I mentioned, we're doing our first full-time in-person hire. Yeah, and finding the right person can be so difficult for so many people. We seem to be quite lucky and the person is going to be watching this, so obviously we really like you. But how did you find that first person to come on board when, like I said, it's an early stage business? They don't yet know how much security is going to be, all those different challenges?

Jyoti Patel : 17:34

yeah so. So there was two things and I think coming back to there was there's two sides of the business one, there's a logistic side and the second part is more operational, online, digital. So naturally, having come from the consulting world and having done this several times, I fully knew the benefits of outsourcing. So I set up an office in India, basically, and A labor arbitrage, b the time difference, it just helped. So my day would literally be wake up then on my way into my job I'd be on the phone to my India team because, obviously, the time difference, then I'd kind of do my full job and then on the way back from the train I'd be speaking to my UK logistics team. So it kind of worked.

Jyoti Patel : 18:24

So, in terms of the operational side, hired a team in India just to do, you know, product uploads, images, product descriptions, and you know it was embarrassingly bad very early stage, but it was very much.

Jyoti Patel : 18:39

Get it live and let's just start seeing what works. You know it was very amateur, you know the first site, but at the end of the day it was let's get it live and see, because before you invest too much money into it, is this going to be worth investing your time and money into it. So that's what I did in terms of hiring an India team, and then in the UK side, it was literally hiring for part time, you know, like two, three days a week. So naturally we, you know, couldn't deliver every day, and so I managed to attract somebody who was actually well, multiple hats for us who not only went to the cash and carries to buy the products, you know, they then stocked the shelves, packed the boxes and even delivered. So they were full-on multi, you know, tasking um within that one role. And then, as we grew, we then started expanding and you mentioned this at this point.

Amardeep Parmar: 19:29

You still got your full-time job, yeah, and, like you said, you've got young kids as well. There's always just a thing to juggle when did you decide it was the right moment for you to take that step back out and go? Okay, this is now gonna be my full-time thing, and I want to see how far I can take this yeah.

Jyoti Patel : 19:43

So I think, um, it was we. We basically got to a million in sales while still working a full-time, and I think it was at that point where I mean it was a huge milestone and up until then it was just all about, you know, hustling, you know being a mother, you know taking the kids to warehouses on the weekends and then going into the office, and then I think it was literally a natural. The, the business model itself is very asset heavy. You need a lot of cash flow because all of my income was going into buying more products which were selling out very quickly. So then I had to replace and then keep buying and doing that.

Jyoti Patel : 20:27

So it was at a point where, when we reached a million, I was like, ok, I don't have enough money to actually literally expand this business, because it's quite ridiculous. So then it was at that point where I was like, you know, and I think this was, you know, where the whole, you know angel investing, the whole startup world was really maturing and somebody said, well, actually, why don't you go and raise funds? And you know you're actually a startup now, you know, and I'm like, well, what's that? It was like over my head.

Jyoti Patel : 20:56

Um, so then that's when I started understanding okay, what's you know raising funds and how do I do that, and then I went and raised, you know, my first round, which was half a million, and I still hadn't given up right then. I think it wasn't until my second round, because the first round we then actually put it into the assets, the inventory, the team, yeah, and I got it to a stage where it was still kind of running that I could still have my job. But then when I did my second round, which then naturally, along with VC investment, you need to be fully invested into your business, is when I then took the jump.

Amardeep Parmar: 21:30

So I feel like today that's quite rare for somebody to take it that far and then go for funding from VCs. And how was your reaction from VCs when they realized that they'd been doing so much as a part time gig?

Jyoti Patel : 21:42

Yeah, I mean to be honest it was. It was the reception I got was amazing in that they can see a person who's fully dedicated, fully invested, especially financially fully invested, managed to grow a business to a million in sales without any external funding. Um, so for them it was, you know, mvp, traction, growth, all of the right metrics, um, so in that sense I think it was, it was a really good deal I imagine, like I don't see many deals like that now, where they must be in shock to see how much you've been able to do before even going full time yeah and you mentioned about angel investment and about vc investment.

Amardeep Parmar: 22:22

How did you look at that at that point? Because I guess, like you said, the startup world is we're still maturing in stage. Right now there's like everybody seems to have a vc and there's like a million vcs of different names, but back then there had been a lot fewer options of where to get this funding from. How did you decide which way to go in that?

Jyoti Patel : 22:38

Yeah, I mean, I think at the time because I knew I had exhausted my own funds and I was so deeply invested because the business was growing itself and, like I said, I was not spending money on marketing and I think that was the biggest indicator of success that our customer acquisition costs were very low compared to the return on investment we were getting. So it was at that point where I was like, hey, this isn't a pension business, now I need to go and fully grow this business. So the mentality you know initially when you know grow this business, um, so I the the mentality you know initially when you grow your own business, is the very asian mentality that ownership is everything. You grow your business and you, you know you don't really part with steak, um, and so that that whole mental mentality was changing because it was like, actually you know what this, this business, is making a difference in people's lives and I never imagined it to grow this big. And so it was like, actually let's go and do this.

Amardeep Parmar: 23:41

so yeah, then taking it full-time right. So you said I hope that because of all the success you'd already had, it must have felt hopefully easier to now go full-time into this. But how did you find that transition of like now this is your full time thing, all you're interested in going one direction. You don't have not that your job was a distraction, but it was like your your attention was split right Absolutely. And now being a full time entrepreneur with this like multimillion revenue business yeah, how was that experience. How did that feel?

Jyoti Patel : 24:12

It was actually very tough because even though the business was making a million, I wasn't making a million and I was very well paid in my corporate career. But then when I had to take the jump, I literally had a third of my original salary. It was tight because naturally you're not going to raise investment and say, hey, I'm going to have my full salary that I used to be on. So it was. You know, it came with a lot of stress initially because it was trying to make everything work with a third of the income that I had, income that I had. So I think, if anything that propelled me to work harder and work faster because, knowing I've got two kids and you know all the other expenses that you have, it was actually just a motivating factor, if anything, just to say, right, hurry up. Now I'm all of a sudden. I went from a very slow mode pension building business to you know, fast track startup that now I'm actually going for an exit.

Amardeep Parmar: 25:15

What changes do you think you made once you went full-time to try to speed up the growth there?

Jyoti Patel : 25:19

Yeah, so it was literally a team. You know, investment in team it's. You know there's a reason why they say it's the teamwork that makes the dream work and the business model itself required. You know, packers, drivers you needed quite a lot of talent and a lot of people to kind of make the business work. So the investment went into building the right team initially and then went into stock and then into marketing yeah, and because you also have feast box as well.

Amardeep Parmar: 25:50

Right, and there's a slight overlap there as well. Yeah, can you tell about where feast box came from and how that relates to slight overlap there as well? Yeah, can you tell about where feast box came from and how?

Jyoti Patel : 25:56

that relates to red rickshaw as well. Yeah, absolutely so fast forward. So we then experienced with red rickshaw. So it was, you know, became the largest indian grocer, but then became the largest wild food grocer, and so, when I say it was actually the largest world food platform, we launched, you know, asian, thai, vietnamese, african, all types of cuisine and to kind of do that and be, you know, we were the largest online supermarket for wild food. Um, and to do that was, you know, in terms of asset. Again going back to products, and um was it? It was still a success, because what I found was that a not only does this problem exist in just the Indian communities, it exists in all of these ethnic minority communities and just by, you know, making sure that we have that right product set kind of grew. And so we experienced, you know, 100% growth year on year and, amazing, you know, customer acquisition cost, you know, return.

Jyoti Patel : 26:52

And so Feesbox came about, because this was around the time where recipe meal kit box companies were also kind of just started doing really well, and it was quite funny because I was like, oh, you know, they're kind of doing something similar to what I'm doing, because we were already delivering, you know, groceries to Edinburgh and these are like your fresh, fresh vegetables and frozen stuff, because we were already doing the cool pack stuff, but it wasn't as widely known as when, you know, the recipe box companies hit the market in the UK. So I'm like they're literally doing what we're doing. They're delivering food in a box. Exactly the same way we're doing it. And I was like, well, okay, what advantages does this mean? And I think just through customer research, because you would think that all of our customers would be Asian, but they were not. So, in fact, majority of our customers were not Asian who just loved Asian food.

Jyoti Patel : 27:42

And so, through a lot of like you know, customer surveys, customer discovery, interviews, questions, we're like, okay, well, what is the biggest challenge? And coming back to the customer service team, the biggest problem was people calling in and saying, well, we love this and we love that, but how do you use this and what can we? How can we do you know, what can we do? So I'm like, okay, this business model actually marries up two things it educates you in terms of these ingredients and it gives you these ingredients because you can't go and find them everywhere. So so that's kind of how Feastbox initially came about. Much skepticism initially because naturally with shareholders it's like well, we've got a fantastic business, just keep growing that business, how is it going to work? But the way I saw it was that it was actually not a separate business. It was actually a door opener to acquire more customers. Which is exactly what happened, because it gave people the education to use authentic ingredients Once we acquired them on the Feastbox side. Then they went on to Redrickshaw to actually go and buy more and more ingredients of what they liked.

Amardeep Parmar: 28:45

So obviously you had so much learning and growth from Redrickshaw. Once you're on to Feastbox, there's obviously lessons you can learn from what you did before to make that smoother for the next time. Yes, what do you think you learned from Red Rickshaw that you could apply to Feastbox really well in terms of the operations and behind the scenes things?

Jyoti Patel : 29:01

Yeah, I mean, and I think we were really clever in terms of how we did it to make sure that we didn't end up having two warehouses or two supply chain.

Jyoti Patel : 29:08

It was all off the backbone of Red Rickshaw because by this time we were importing. You know, red Rickshaw had grown to a stage where the supply chain was pretty solid and so with Feastbox, we made use of existing assets, but it was its own, you know, whole new business model, different way of advertising, different marketing, economics and the lessons learned there. To be honest and I think this was my first experience, because you do you know you have a lot of people who are very tainted by their own experience of the business they've grown. So trying to apply some of the lessons, especially in terms of marketing, were very, very different, because now you've, you know, feastbox was a subscription business. It worked very differently. We were very much focused on AI and algorithm and making sure we were kind of doing all the matching and bespoke tailoring for retention purposes. It was a costly business, a lot more costly in terms of acquiring customers.

Jyoti Patel : 30:11

And it was like 100 times more costly than acquiring a Red Rickshaw customer. And so then you have to kind of put your thinking hat on and think right, okay, we know how. How. Why? How do we actually get the cost down and acquire more customers? So it was a different learning experience because of the different business model, because by this stage Red Rickshaw actually we had a B2B model, so we were also doing restaurant supplying to restaurants and we were building out our own restaurant tech as well. So there was the tech side of the business, there was Feastbox, which was the recipe meal kit, and then there was Red Rickshaw, which was the ultimate supply chain and back mode to everything. So different facets to the business. It was very much an omni-channel type business, but each one of them worked differently to the way when we advertised and, you know, brought on restaurants, to the way we actually then sold feast box. It was actually a fantastic experience to get to know different business models within one business.

Amardeep Parmar: 31:02

Yeah, and obviously you were able to exit both of those businesses, yeah, and what made you then decide to like go on to do what you do today? Like what? What made that transition?

Jyoti Patel : 31:12

yeah, so I, by that time, I mean, you know we had a, you know we had a very significant funding and it was at a point where, you know, the shareholders like time to sell, perfect time to sell for me. I was like, not so much, but it's, you know, it's a baby that you've also built over over that course of the decade. Um, so, um, yeah, no, we ended up it got sold, um, and then I mean it to be honest, it was already nearing that, because we're already talking to partners about selling, um, and so in the back of my mind there was always what am I going to do next? What am I going to do next? Because it was so much part of my end, my identity, yeah, um, so I think there was. There were a couple of things which I was always very passionate about. One thing thing was you know, when I had raised investment, I never saw a female investor on the opposite side of the table, let alone you know, Asian.

Jyoti Patel : 32:03

So I always knew it was very difficult to raise money in the UK. So I was like, ok, well, there's obviously a problem, there Is that something that you know I would want to do? Was like, okay, well, there's obviously a problem, there is that something that you know I would want to do. Um, but I think, just going back to how it all started and how I got into business, was the psychology again, you know, and then just loving business. So I've been helping a lot of founders, you know, b2b, sas, ai companies kind of established their growth model, their growth strategy and accelerate growth. So, um, but it's also like mainly coming down to psychology again, and it's called the psychology influence, which is what I mainly do now, which is helping people.

Jyoti Patel : 32:46

So let me take a step back. So 95 to 99% of buying, purchasing decisions are made subconsciously. So a lot of the things you end up doing in marketing, a lot of the strategies you employ, you don't actually realize that the customer there's so many other subconscious factors that determine whether somebody's going to buy from you. And I was fortunate enough to do so many experiments because naturally we had raised considerable funds to do so much testing around consumer behavior, especially when we had like over 2000 SKUs. So we did a lot of testing in terms of what made this person buy where they went on the website, but also in terms of framing positioning, and I then now go back to a lot of the success I had was actually being able to pinpoint some of that. So I think the best way to describe, you know, influence psychology in terms of applying it to business is we've seen Mad Men.

Amardeep Parmar: 33:44

Yeah.

Jyoti Patel : 33:44

So the character of Don Draper. I think one of the inspirations of that character was a very famous ad exec called Ross Reeves yeah, ross Reeves, so there's an example of. So he was going this is back in the 30s, 40s, whenever it was he was going to, you know, for lunch. He was, you know, this was in New York, it was springtime, and him and his colleague were walking, you know, through the park, wherever it was going for lunch, and they, you know, walked past this man who had a sign saying I'm blind, who was sitting on the floor. So then they went for lunch, came on his way back, the man was still there, still no money in his tin. So he thought, okay, let me help this man, let me see. So he just on his sign it said I'm blind, right, so he added three words to his sign and then he stood back to see, okay, what would happen. Uh, and he guesses what those three words might be and need money see.

Jyoti Patel : 34:45

so you know. So what happened? Yeah, so he actually put it's springtime and I'm blind, because it was, you know, sunny, fresh air in the park and what ended up happening was then, all of a sudden, when people read that, they realized the inequality of them being able to experience spring and this blind man not being able to experience that, and they felt uncomfortable with that inequality and was more able to then contribute. And then, all of a sudden, you know, the blind man was like what did he write? What did he say? So it's, the power of psychology is the fact that it brings something that's in the background into awareness for you to be able to help the buyer make the right decisions.

Amardeep Parmar: 35:27

Yeah, things like that. So you mentioned about the investment side there as well.

Jyoti Patel : 35:32

Right.

Amardeep Parmar: 35:32

How's that side been going? What have you been looking at there?

Jyoti Patel : 35:36

Yeah, so I've partnered up with two other fantastic business partners called Paul and Maggie and we started in this together, which is an angel syndicate. So going back to this is more focused on companies who want to raise, companies who want to expand into the US. So we're building up an angel network with US family offices, us-based angel network, angel investors who want to invest in the best of the European deal. So it's yeah, we've done one deal and we're in the middle of doing another one. So, yeah, that's again fantastic in terms of helping more people expand, especially into the US, because that tends to be the trajectory of where they want to go and exit.

Amardeep Parmar: 36:18

Nice, and then what made you go down that route in terms of the US side? Is that related to your own experiences or what made you decide on that as a thesis?

Jyoti Patel : 36:25

Yeah, I mean so I think, just the nature. There are a lot of syndicates and a lot of like emerging fund managers, of like emerging fund managers. Um, and this was more also based on the fact that it's you know, when you get to series b, series a, series b, it's very much you know to make it go go towards close to your exit. You the us market is always going to be the core part of your exiting strategy. So it's being able to kind of bridge that gap between the UK and the US and actually having a cap table where they can actually really help you expand into the US. So it's more from that side.

Amardeep Parmar: 37:02

Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. We obviously see a lot where, as you said, even 10 years ago the UK market basically didn't exist and there's now more and more happening. For example, we exist but, as you said, exit wise, generally see bigger american companies who could acquire the uk companies, and there's only very few of the uk companies so far.

Amardeep Parmar: 37:21

I've got that massive status of being able to have a really big ipo, and that can change over time, but right now, like you said, the us market is so much bigger yeah there's a lot to explore out there and I guess, like, if you kind of marry those two sections there with the investment side and psychology side, how have you found that, in terms of the mindset of those UK entrepreneurs who are trying to expand into the US, what are maybe their mindsets that they need to change or adapt in order to be able to succeed in that market?

Jyoti Patel : 37:48

Yeah, I mean, to be honest, conquer your home market first, and I see far too many founders already trying to do geographic expansion when it's not the right time, and that will come naturally, I think, once you've conquered one market, you've understood your ideal customer persona, you've got product market fit and you've got, you know, the right metrics. Then is when you kind of start thinking about the next growing in another market.

Jyoti Patel : 38:14

It should always be part of your trajectory, because there's a reason why all companies end up going to the US and exiting there. But don't do it too soon, and I think I would probably give the opposite advice first to say, conquer your home market and then only think about it once you're at that stage to you know, actually invest a team, invest more resources and understand it, because you end up having to change your product or you'll appeal to maybe a different type of customer, a customer persona. In so it's, it's literally starting a new business sometimes. 

Amardeep Parmar: 38:48

 Yeah, because we've had that. People have told us oh, why don't you expand to India? Why don't you expand to Pasuk? Because let us get our own thing done first, like in one place, and get that right, rather than spread us off so thin that you then can't do anything exactly but so great to have you on today. We're gonna go to a quick fire questions now sure so first one is who are three British Asian entrepreneurs you think are doing incredible work right now and you'd love to shout them out?

Jyoti Patel : 39:10

Sure. So, um, definitely Alpesh J. Unalkat. He's at the top of my list. He's a fantastic entrepreneur. You know three businesses or exited two businesses, you know one of them to a FTSE company, so you know listed company, so you know very big in terms of tech and he's now, you know, focused on helping business owners raise funds or M&A or just kind of help them grow. So, yeah, Alpesh is definitely one of them. Who's kicking ass out there. Dr Vanita Rattan, who you've had before, absolutely crushing it in the world of skincare and spending years on product development and identifying the right type of product for Asian skin. So I think, amazing, amazing female founder for Asian skin. So I think, amazing, um, amazing female founder. And um, and Hema Wara, who is, uh, you know, dedicated her life in terms of women's health and she's a nutritionist and helping women with their diet and nutrition to help them with their health. So yeah.

Amardeep Parmar: 40:06

And if you want to find out more about you and what you're up to, where should they go to?

Jyoti Patel : 40:10

so, so hopefully I'll be active on LinkedIn pretty soon, so find me on LinkedIn or my website as well. It's jyothipatel.me and yeah, and just feel free to reach out on either platform. Linkedin. Love to hear from everyone.

Amardeep Parmar: 40:25

Is there anything that the audience listening right now could help you with, that they could reach out and help you about?

Jyoti Patel : 40:29

I mean, if you know, if there are any US angel investors, family offices definitely reach out, that'd be amazing. And anyone actually just you know looking at exploring how to use psychology in marketing, then, yeah, more than happy to help.

Amardeep Parmar: 40:44

So again, thank you so much for coming on. Any final words?

Jyoti Patel : 40:46

No, that's it. Thank you for having me and the platform you're building and hopefully I've inspired somebody out there to go and take that risk and build a business.

Amardeep Parmar:

Thank you for watching. Don’t forget to subscribe. See you next time.

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