Shivani Pau: [00:00:00] When someone was like, you're just never gonna do it, I was like, yeah, screw you, I am gonna do it. The podcast got to number 10 in the mental health charts in the UK on the day I released it. Be like, oh my god, like, what's happening? And what's interesting, and I want everyone to be aware of this, is my whole life, I was, you know, obsessed with getting more followers because I thought when I get a follow, when I get more followers, I'll get more brand deals. You're always gonna worry about what other people want you to do And you're never gonna worry about what you want to spread out in the world. And I think that's the really my main message now is be yourself and for so long I wasn't and this year I feel like I can finally be myself. I can say all the expressions I want I can act in the way I want. It's actually something that I haven't really told anyone.

Amardeep Parmar: Welcome to the BAE HQ podcast, where we aim to connect, inspire, and guide the next generation of British Asian Entrepreneurs. Today's guest is Shivani Pau, who's the host of Millennial Mind, the founder of My Performance Planner, and a performance coach. Say [00:01:00] hi to everyone, Shivani. 

Shivani Pau: Hey  everyone. Thank you so much for having me.

Amardeep Parmar: So you've got a really interesting journey and you've talked to so many amazing people now, but when you were growing up, did you ever think you'd get to where you are today?

Shivani Pau: Um, no. If you, if you told me when I was younger that I'd be a podcast host and I would be doing like, I would have a journal and have like, like, I guess it's a stationary brand, isn't it?

Shivani Pau: A little bit, I guess. And I'd be doing like workshops and I'd be doing coaching and I'd be like, yeah, okay, whatever. That's just crazy to me. But yeah, no, I never, I never imagined that for myself. I always in a weird way for some bizarre reason, always thought that I'd be okay. And I always thought that I would have a lot of security and I always knew I'd make it on my own because I think when I was younger, it was drilled into me that you have to make it on your own.

Shivani Pau: And so I always knew in my heart that I would, I don't know what on earth I thought I would do, but I always knew that I'd be really independent. 

Amardeep Parmar: So what came first with going from the corporate career into what you're doing now? 

Shivani Pau: So I was someone [00:02:00] who I would say five, six years ago wasn't that motivated.

Shivani Pau: I've always been someone who's very busy and I've never been someone who's lazy. I've always woken up early. I've always been all over the place. I've always been someone who's always in a rush and can't seem to shake that feeling off for some reason, even now. But I essentially was going through a really tough relationship, and because I was so unhappy in that, I was just unhappy overall, and I just felt very unmotivated.

Shivani Pau: Now Reshma, as you know, she's my auntie, but she's, she's my auntie in the sense that she lived in New York. I'd never met her since I, I think I met her when I was like six or seven. And my mom was like, she's coming to the UK on a book tour, so why don't you come along? And I was like, oh, okay, fine, I'll come.

Shivani Pau: I met her and I was so inspired by her. And because I was so inspired by her, when we went to New York that summer, I say, can I shadow you for a day? And she was doing a podcast. Now, when she was doing the podcast, I remember thinking that this is so cool. I want to do that. And I was always someone who had very deep conversations.

Shivani Pau: I've been a very deep person. You can't just have a five minute conversation with me unless I don't like you. Then I'll have a [00:03:00] two minute conversation with you. 

Amardeep Parmar: But you've just given that away now for five minute conversation with you. 

Shivani Pau: Yeah. It's, it's, you know, I've always been that person that's like to go deep and dig deeper.

Shivani Pau: So I was already having really powerful, meaningful conversations. And so I started thinking about having my own podcast. Now there was loads of ideas that went around and I wanted to title it The Indian Problem which is really a negative title in itself. And one day when I was running I just thought millennial is good because I wanna talk about those millennial things.

Shivani Pau: And a millennial mind just came to me. And so I used my contacts to reach out to Mira Manek and she said yes. And then there was another model who had been posting about, like, the realities of being a model and how, like, hard it was. Found her on Instagram, read her article, reached out to her. She said yes.

Shivani Pau: So I recorded these two episodes, sat on them for six months, and then in lockdown, when someone was like, you're just never gonna do it, I was like, yeah, screw you, I am gonna do it. So I released these podcasts, the podcast got to number 10 in the mental health charts in the UK on the day I released it.

Shivani Pau: And I remember thinking at the time, like, this is a joke, [00:04:00] like, this is a flunk email because it was from Charterball, which I'd never heard of. And I was like, obviously this is a prank and they want me to sign up to something or something. And I asked someone in the industry, they were like, no, your podcast is number 10 in the charts.

Shivani Pau: And I remember thinking, oh my God, that's crazy. Like, how has that happened? And from that day, I remember I only had that one episode. I then had to reach out, find the guests, research, reach out, record and release one in one week. And I was basically doing that for the whole first season. After that finished, I was like, right now I want to talk about the Indian problem.

Shivani Pau: But I was like, let me choose a different title. So I titled it The Indian Expectation. And I went through all the expectations we have in our societies, broke that, broke them down. And essentially, a Millennial Mind was created around challenging taboos and stereotypes, whilst also focusing on mental health throughout every single episode.

Shivani Pau: Focusing on people's journeys, continuous improvement. It's there to really inspire. And that's what I really wanted to get across because for me, the most uplifted I feel is when I'm inspired by someone and I just wanted to provide that for other people as well. So Mellow Mind was created. On the [00:05:00] back of that Clubhouse was created.

Shivani Pau: Were you on that platform? 

Amardeep Parmar:  Yep, for a while. Yeah, right. 

Shivani Pau:  So I became addicted to clubhouse like I'm sure everyone else did and through that people asked me, Do you coach? and I was like, well, I'm a consultant So yeah, I can help you and I've always with consulting you have to do a lot of coaching So I love training anyway, so I started coaching and through that I realize that what people really struggle with is hitting their goals because they don't have a structure in which to do it.

Shivani Pau: Now I've been using a template every day and I almost was using that template with my clients. So it was set your big picture goals, break them down, tell me exactly which week of the month you're going to do them in, plan your week effectively so you're hitting that week one goal with your weekly planner.

Shivani Pau: And then every day focus on them, but not, don't just focus on your goals with your work, focus on your goals with your mind. So in the performance planner, you have like your to do list, your daily task list, your prioritization, but you also have a gratitude journal, a reflection journal and affirmations journal.

Shivani Pau: And so I just was kind of sick of carrying around so many different journals. Like everyone [00:06:00] has a separate journal for the reflection, the gratitude, uh, for their daily planner, for their goals. And I was like, I just need to make an all in one. 

Amardeep Parmar: And so I created the performance planner. So,  like, rolling back though, with the first podcast guest you got there, because obviously a lot of people want to make podcasts and they struggle with it.

Shivani Pau: Yeah. 

Amardeep Parmar: And you said you got a quite big name guest on right away. How do you think you were able to do that? How did you think, because obviously at that point you wouldn't have had an audience yet, you wouldn't have had a name, 

Shivani Pau: Yeah. Like nothing.

Amardeep Parmar:  things like that. Like obviously I've been through a similar thing where getting guests at the beginning, like I was, I was lucky in one of my podcasts I already had an audience.

Shivani Pau: Yeah.

Amardeep Parmar: So I could get people because of that. They could respect me in that way. At the beginning you said it was through context. Even through context sometimes you've got to prove yourself that a hundred, it's worth their time to come on.

Shivani Pau: I think you need to really know what you're talking about.

Shivani Pau: And so I had a lot of conviction in when I was speaking to that guest, and I prepared a lot for that call. Actually. I remember I was in Waitrose and it was on my lunch break and I called her and because I was just so passionate about it. And Mira was a perfect guest for my podcast. This is the other thing.[00:07:00] 

Shivani Pau: Don't just go after a big name because they're a big name, because they're not going to be interested in your podcast because there's nothing that's relatable for them. With Mira and I, when I met her, when I spoke to her, sorry, because she was passionate about the topic too, she could relate and she wanted to share her story.

Shivani Pau: And I think the number one thing is don't be afraid of asking, you know, everyone obviously knows that I've got a lot of my guests just by being fearless and shameless and asking. Sometimes I've messaged them seven or eight times, and sometimes there's a fine line between being annoying. I, I totally appreciate that.

Shivani Pau: But I think in terms of using the context you have to find the relevant people for your audience is really, really powerful, especially in the beginning. You know, there's no harm in asking somebody. And if you're really clear on your purpose and you believe that that person truly aligns with your audience, then there's no reason for them to say no.

Shivani Pau: And if they do say no, don't take it personally. Because there's so many people that ask me to come on their podcast now and it's really difficult to find the time because everyone is super busy and everyone's working on so many different things and it doesn't mean you're not [00:08:00] good enough it just means it's not the right time right now. So it's always important to ask for that feedback as well. So when people say no to coming on my podcast I'm always like can you just let me know why sometimes they don't tell me but sometimes they do and it is helpful. 

Amardeep Parmar: Yeah and it's interesting thing where for example, on the other podcast of Into, there's some pretty big names.

Amardeep Parmar: So I use those as a lead magnet in some ways to get people on, my podcast of Into, the founders of blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right? And it works a lot of the time, but then other people just ignore it. 

Shivani Pau: Yeah. 

Amardeep Parmar:  And that's the thing. You've got to get used to that. Sometimes a rejection is easy. If somebody just says no, so I'm busy, that's fine.

Shivani Pau: Yes. 

Amardeep Parmar: But if somebody just doesn't reply, you're like, oh, I wasn't even worth a reply sometimes. And you mentioned there about doing the persistent side of things as well. And what I tell people as well is that if you mess with somebody and they ignore you, they're probably not going to remember you. So if you're asking me again in a couple months time, you haven't really burnt a bridge there because you have, they'll only remember you.

Amardeep Parmar: And it's one of the things, especially at the beginning, you've got that great thing about, because you haven't got an audience, you haven't got a platform. It doesn't [00:09:00] matter so much if you make a mistake. If you're going to write, for example, and nobody reads it, then it doesn't matter because nobody, like, there's no shame in that, right?

Amardeep Parmar: If you make an Instagram and nobody follows you, so what? Nobody's seen it. There's no, like, but people get in the heads of other people in a judgment. It's not really the case. 

Shivani Pau: So true. 

Amardeep Parmar: Were you scared of that at all about how people are going to perceive it when you started doing a podcast? 

Shivani Pau: Um, in the beginning, no.

Shivani Pau: Now I think I'm a lot more conscious. Um, when I message people multiple times now, I'm like, God, they must think I'm really annoying. But then I just remind myself that ultimately with so many people when I've messaged them for the third or fourth time, that's when they've seen it and they really appreciate the fact that I've really wanted them on.

Shivani Pau: So I just reframe it in that way.

Amardeep Parmar: And with the audience as well. So once you started getting on a podcast and a lot of people are nervous about that as well, getting on the camera like this, were you nervous about that or is it something that you found quite natural for you? 

Shivani Pau: To come on camera. Yeah, I was petrified on the first one.

Shivani Pau: If you watch my first episode, it was in a different studio. I was genuinely really nervous because you [00:10:00] don't know where to look like when you're on virtual. We were talking about this earlier. You're looking at yourself the whole time. When you're on a camera, it's also very difficult if you're not doing it with an entire team.

Shivani Pau: So I don't have someone to tell me if my hair's out of place and I have someone to on my teeth. 

Amardeep Parmar: Your hair looks fine, don't worry.

Shivani Pau: But you know, one time I've recorded a podcast in Millenial Mind, mugs have been like this. And so it's very annoying when you, when you're editing and doing it yourself to think, Oh my God, why didn't I notice that?

Shivani Pau: And often it can be quite difficult when you're kind of coming on camera and express, expressing yourself so much, but I think it helps your audience relate to you because I'm very expressive. And so when people tell me like a shocking news, I'm like, or like, I'll be like, Oh my God. And like, I'm very expressive.

Shivani Pau: And I think people relate to me on that level as well. 

Amardeep Parmar: Yeah. I need to practice that. ‘Cause I've seen your thumbnails and I didn't have that. So you need to do practice my faces in the mirror. Get prepared for it. 

Shivani Pau: Yeah. 

Amardeep Parmar: Get that excitement out there as well. 

Shivani Pau: Yeah. Well, some people are naturally very expressive and it works against me and for me in many ways, because often when I'm saying something with so much passion and enthusiasm, but I'm being serious about it, [00:11:00] people will think I'm a bit, you know, intimidating.

Shivani Pau: But if I'm talking about it, like, that's amazing. People obviously love that. But if I'm like, what on earth? Then some people can take that differently. So it works against me as well sometimes. 

Amardeep Parmar: When  was it that you actually thought this could be something you could do full time potentially, because I guess at the beginning you weren't thinking that right.

Amardeep Parmar: And you took six months to release the first episode, but at some point, something was a flip to like, actually, maybe this could be my full time gig.

Shivani Pau: I think people always told me, uh, very early on that you're going to make it. I still have, I still don't think I've made it at all, by the way, but people told me really early on that, you know, you, you will make it, you will make it.

Shivani Pau: Some people did, sorry. And, uh, I always used to think, yeah, but doing what? And I still have those days when I'm like, what on earth am I doing? It was actually at the start of this year, when I started posting more regularly, and I was posting more controversial topics, and I was breaking up further taboos, and I was getting even better guests.

Shivani Pau: And when I mean by better guests, I don't mean people with bigger followings. Because I've, from the beginning, I've had people with massive followings, but it was from the conversations I was having, the impact that [00:12:00] they were giving and the stories that they were sharing were just so incredible that I think people were really resonating with me.

Shivani Pau: And I remember one of my friends who started her own business, she was like, you need to do it. And I was like, no, no, no, I'm going to do it in a bit. Like, you know, my boss is going on holiday for the whole of summer. So there's no point me quitting now. She was like, you're just making excuses. And I was like, well, I need to find a sponsor first.

Shivani Pau: And everyone was like, you're always going to say you need to do this, this, this, this, and this before you can quit. But the problem was, is with a full time job, because I was doing all the editing, because I was doing all the outreach, because I was running the whole podcast. It takes me two hours to get here.

Shivani Pau: It's funny. We're recording in the same studio. But it takes me two hours to get here, two hours to get back. It was physically impossible for me to do everything else on top. And I found that outreach the hardest because I'm not a salesperson. I'm not really a seller of myself. And you know, I don't even talk about my performance plan on my own podcast because I didn't even think that I should do that.

Shivani Pau: So selling, selling, sales is not my, my key focus. And it's never been something I'm passionate about. So for me to send out sponsorship emails was like really uncomfortable. It still is really uncomfortable. [00:13:00] So I was like, I need to find the time to do that. And so it was this summer where my profile was growing rapidly and people were saying to me, like, you know, if you quit Shavani, you could do so much more.

Shivani Pau: And if you focused your time, you could just achieve so much. And when you let go of something, you never know what's on the other side. And it was only then that I was like, okay, okay, I need to do it. I need to do it. And I remember writing out a plan and thinking about all the revenue streams, how I can scale everything, what I'm going to do.

Shivani Pau: So I, I wanted to move out into London and I had a flat in London and two days before it fell through, so I packed all my bags, told my parents, my Indian parents, who obviously like don't leave, but told them I was going to move. And then it fell through. And at that point, I remember going to see loads of others and I just gave up ‘cause the, it was just awful that all the experiences, and I won't talk about the traumatic experience that put me off, but I remember thinking if I'm going to spend so much money on living out in London,

Shivani Pau: shouldn't I quit my job and use that money to, like, live off, [00:14:00] essentially? And I remember thinking, I either move out or I quit my job. And I thought about that for ages. I was like, what do I do? What do I do? And I remember just every podcast, every quote, everything I was, everyone I was meeting was like, you won't regret it.

Shivani Pau: Like, you need to do it. Go for it. You don't know what's on the other side. It will just come to you. You'll think of new things. And I don't know what it was. It just, One day I was like, I need to do it, don't I? And I told myself every day, like, I need to do it, I need to do it. But I remember just, I was, I was coming off a project at work, and I remember I was going on to a new one.

Shivani Pau: And I just remember being like, I don't want to do this. And the podcast, after every podcast, I feel so incredibly happy. I was like, what if I can do this? What if I can make a living out of doing something I love? And I remember thinking, I will always find another job. But I may never get this opportunity again.

Shivani Pau: So let me just try. And what's the worst that will happen? And so I just took the leap. 

Amardeep Parmar: Yeah. There's like so many interesting questions that [00:15:00] come up my mind as you talk through there. And one of the ones I know that all my friends have asked me when I was interviewing you was about how did you manage to do this with your full time job?

Amardeep Parmar: And like you said, ‘cause it is a lot of hours. 

Shivani Pau: I don’t know.

Amardeep Parmar: Everything like that. ‘Cause I only started my podcast after I'd already left my job. And that was. I told myself.like with different plans, I'm going to start the podcast once I've left my job because I have the time to do it. 

Shivani Pau: Yeah. 

Amardeep Parmar: And you were doing it at the same time.

Amardeep Parmar: And obviously, even in terms of availability, because you could only do the podcast outside of working hours.

Shivani Pau: Correct.

Amardeep Parmar: And all of those kinds of problems makes it really hard even to try and get the guests on. It's that extra level of difficulty. If they've, they're full time creatives or they're full time in their own business.

Amardeep Parmar: They probably would rather do it in the day. 

Shivani Pau:Yeah.

Amardeep Parmar: Rather than in the evening when it's their family time. So how did you do that? Have you got any tips for people trying to do something like this on the side?

Shivani Pau: It's not a tip, but I used every single day of annual leave for a podcast. Every single day.

Shivani Pau: Apart from my time in LA, which I obviously recorded podcasts there. But apart from that, I didn't take one day of holiday this year. When I went on my friend's hen, it was over a bank holiday. And every single other day was to record. And in [00:16:00] the beginning, I used to just do it at an hour at lunchtime. So I used to take like two hours off, but it was so rushed.

Shivani Pau: And I remember I've talked about this before. I went into a podcast running with all my bag and my laptop and had my normal laptop and a gift bag and all my clothes in there. I'm recording the podcast straight out of a meeting and it was, it was just the hardest thing because I remember thinking I'm failing in both, like I'm not exceeding in either.

Shivani Pau: And it was that that really drove me to think, okay, do I want to be mediocre in both things I'm doing or I'd want to be great in one. And I really had to make that decision. And with a full time job. I think with any side hustle in the beginning, there is this a whole notion around hard work is toxic, but you will not get anywhere in life if you don't work hard.

Shivani Pau: And I'm not recommending what I did because I really, really did burn out. And I was at that point where I was like, I don't want to do this anymore. But weirdly, after I record every podcast, I just got this high. And so I would, that high would last me two, three days. Then I would feel low one day, then I record another podcast.

Shivani Pau: It was a bit up and down for me, but it was hard and it was difficult. [00:17:00] Anything in life is hard. Anyone starting a business finds it hard. Anyone starting a new job will find it hard. Whenever you're doing something that is outside of the norm, your passion will take over. And that's, what's really, really key.

Shivani Pau: So I wouldn't recommend to anyone to do what I did, but, and I would always say to anyone, before you start a podcast, batch record episodes because I made the mistake and I still am in this limbo now where I have one podcast I try and batch record, batch record for, and then I'll have them lasting, but then the time just goes and months just pass by and I'm like, shit, if this person doesn't turn up, I don't have a podcast for next week, and that has happened to me, but I would recommend for anyone to batch record before you release, and that was a mistake I made because I was always then in a rush.

Shivani Pau: But in terms of managing my time, I am extremely rigid with my time. And the performance planner, honestly, has been a lifesaver because I time block everything and I'm very specific on my goals. So for me, it was like, I need to record four podcasts every month. I will therefore record one hour a week.

Shivani Pau: I'll take half a day off every week. So that's two days per month. I'd got 25 days in the year, [00:18:00] but I was slowly running out of time, which is why I had to quit. Um, so I was very rigid. And like that. So two days, two days a month, I record it. I'd release it. I would edit it. I'd wake up at five, between five and eight, I would do the podcast editing.

Shivani Pau: And within that three hours, I would edit the full full podcast, create all the clips. Now, the good thing is, is that because I was doing audio first, I learned how to edit audio, then I was doing video on Zoom. So I learned how to edit video and then slowly I started learning how to edit on Final Cut and every time it's a learning curve and you have to be patient and you have to be wanting to learn those things, but I really enjoy doing that.

Shivani Pau: Towards the end, I was like, I can't do this anymore. It's dire and I did get an editor, but the pace that I was working at is very difficult to keep up because my schedule is I'll record on like a Wednesday. The files get sent to the editor by Thursday. The trailer needs to be out by Sunday. For the trailer to be out, you need to record the full episode.

Shivani Pau: Reel needs to be out on Tuesday. Another reel needs to be out on Thursday. Uploading onto all other platforms, the full [00:19:00] podcast on YouTube was subtitled with animations with everything else. It's a lot. And I realized that I was, I was expecting someone to do a job for three people. So when you look at all these major podcasters, they have one person who does their trailer.

Shivani Pau: They have another person who does their TikTok. They have another person who does their Instagram and they have another person who posts on LinkedIn. When it's just one person doing that, it can feel like a mountain, but because I loved it so much, I was doing it, but I was inconsistent with LinkedIn. I'm not consistent with that.

Shivani Pau: I was inconsistent with TikTok. So now I have an agency that's helping me with that. But at the time it was like, How am I gonna ever keep going? And that was the other thing about in the decision to quit my job was like, I can't keep this up like it is gonna, I am one day just gonna have a breakdown and I felt like there were points, especially when I came back from L.

Shivani Pau: A. I was working so hard. I wasn't going to the gym. I lost a lot of weight and I was just obsessive. I just became very, very obsessive. And it's funny because at work, I'm not someone who was, I have no attention to detail. I'm very holistic. I love strategy. But I'm not someone who's very [00:20:00] attentive to every little small thing.

Shivani Pau: And with podcasts, it's so particular, like this has to be like this. This has to be like this. And it's funny when you, when you love something, you become obsessed with it. 

Amardeep Parmar: Yeah. And it's really interesting. A few things you said there, and one of the things you said was about how hard it is at the beginning.

Amardeep Parmar: And. A lot of people don't necessarily appreciate that, right? Is that when is talking about balance, and I think I've talked about this myself as well, where as you get further on, that's, you make some of the more like balanced decisions and you can hire people and that kind of thing. 

Shivani Pau: Yes. 

Amardeep Parmar:  But at the start, it's gonna be hard, pretty much no matter what.

Shivani Pau: Exactly. Any industry.

Amardeep Parmar: Yeah. And you've gotta decide. And you've gotta decide how much you wanna grow because that's the tradeoff, right? If you wanna grow really fast, it's gonna be some hard work at the beginning. Mm-hmm. . And if that's something ‘cause you aren't passionate about and like said, you used the word obsessive and I think

Amardeep Parmar: in many ways, that's the trait and it sounds negative, but in order to get through some of this stuff, you have to really care about it and really want it to do well. And it's the same thing where I taught myself all the different editing programs and then you siphon off to an editor to do it. And even when you get the editor, I don’t know how you feel about it.

Shivani Pau: [00:21:00] But still have to work on it with them, of course, because it's to your taste.

Shivani Pau: Like I have to review everything. I have to tell them, do this, do this, do this, because they're not mind readers. They don't know exactly what I know. And I, I think I know what the audience want to hear. And I think I know what's going to land. And a lot of the time it's always about picking out the value and for them when they haven't listened to the podcast for that long, you know I've only been working them for a month now.

Shivani Pau: They're unable to pick that out and that's totally fine but you know, I think with anything it is gonna be difficult if you want to do something extraordinary because if it was easy every single person in the world would do it and I think that's what's sometimes missed in the creative industry and it's, it is hard, but every job is hard.

Shivani Pau: And I think I was just talking about this recently when people say, is being an influencer harder than a job, harder, harder than a normal job? You can't compare them. No, there's no need to attach ego and say, oh, I'm working harder than you or this job is harder or this job is harder. Everyone is working hard in their own way and everyone is trying to be the best that they can.

Shivani Pau: And I think that's what's important to appreciate is that everyone's just trying their best. And so we don't [00:22:00] need to compare and contrast with every single industry. We just need to focus on what we're doing. 

Amardeep Parmar: Yeah, I completely agree with that because I see it a lot. Sometimes you see people post on Instagram, for example, but nobody understands how hard they work.

Amardeep Parmar: And it's, it's, it's that. And it's also. You don't know the audience, right? You don't know how hard the audience is working. 

Shivani Pau: Exactly. 

Amardeep Parmar:  So you can come across a bit condescending, patronizing, like, oh, I'm working harder than you. It's like, you have no idea what that background is. And you've got to be really careful about it.

Amardeep Parmar: Sometimes I think, if nobody's appreciating what you're doing, it's also a case of, you need to make sure that your content is hitting better. 

Shivani Pau: Mmm, Some person’s responsibility. 

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Amardeep Parmar: If nobody’s reading your writing. Make your writing better. If nobody's listening to your podcast, you've got to improve your podcast. You've got to take on feedback. And it's a hard pill to swallow, but that's how you get better.

Amardeep Parmar: And obviously you want people to support you. Like with this, for example, I'm asking people to support at the beginning. You need that support in the beginning to get it off the rails, get it going, but you can't rely on that forever. It's got to stand on its own two feet at some point. And it's even like, for example, like with my average post, I won't be able to tell my friends, Oh, you've got to like this.

Shivani Pau:  No.

Amardeep Parmar: [00:23:00] And like, if you, if you're relying on that for every post, you're going to be in trouble. Right. And you've got limited awesome people. I say it right. Like I can do it at the launch. If I get a book out, I can ask people to like do that. And this is where you kind of rely on the goodwill you've created in the world.

Amardeep Parmar: If you're nice to other people, hopefully they're nice to you back, but you can't demand it. 

Shivani Pau:Of course. 

Amardeep Parmar: And with your podcast as well, it grew so fast, right? And like you said, you had lots of great guests on, but you had lots of great guests on from the beginning. What do you think really made it take off like earlier this year, where it just exploded, right?

Shivani Pau: Well, you know, it was really hard. And I think for anyone in the creative industry, when you feel you're putting out good content, it is the hardest thing in the world when you feel people aren't relying on being impacted by it. Now, I don't mean the followers. I didn't ever care about the followers, but it would break my heart when I would spend so much time doing a podcast and get like

Shivani Pau: 50 views. And I just remember being like, I'm going to give up. This is just never landing. I don't know what to do, but I really enjoyed them. And I was learning so much from them. And it was this year when I said, I'm going to get a studio, I'm going to invest. And even at that point, [00:24:00] everyone was like, are you getting paid to do this?

Shivani Pau: And I was like, no. I, I have only got a sponsor now, two and a half years later. Because I just loved it and I've invested loads of money into the podcast, but it was something that I really enjoyed and I really resonated with so many other podcasts that inspired me and the people who messaged me that said that inspired them would just be so rewarding.

Shivani Pau: I just couldn't explain the feeling. And so, this year, it was weird because I recorded a podcast, which I knew would land with people. And it was about, are big weddings a waste of money? And the reason why I recorded that podcast was not to out anyone, not to criticize anything, was to open up a debate, which I thought every family, every friend, everyone has when they're getting married.

Shivani Pau: Do I have a big wedding or a small wedding? What are the expectations of me? Are people going to judge me? Do, do I have to pay for people to do this? Do I have to pay? Whatever, whatever it was, and I felt it was such a topical debate that I'd been having for so long, and one that engaged so many people that I just knew I wanted to talk about it.

Shivani Pau: Now, within that [00:25:00] podcast, what resonated with people is when I said, don't ask when me, when I'm getting married because I don't know. And that genuinely was just a true story. I had absolutely no clue that that was gonna go viral. I have talked about this a billion times before I did a podcast with Nadia.

Shivani Pau: Season 2, she was from Indian Matchmaking, I said this whole thing. Five weeks before that I did a TikTok, and I said, Please, please, please, control yourself when you go to a wedding, and don't ask anyone when they're getting married. So when I did this podcast, I just clipped the video, and, uh, it was funny because someone used my video without tagging me on TikTok, and she said, I want to make this video go viral.

Shivani Pau: And she did, it went to a million views in one day. And I remember she messaged me after and said, Look, I'm really sorry, I didn't mean to not tag you, it was an accident or whatever, and I was like, okay, whatever. And I even put it on my story to be like, should I be annoyed about that? And some people were like, yeah, that's on purpose.

Shivani Pau: And other people were like, look, just take it for what it is. And I Like, at least you're sharing my content. Her video went to 2 million. [00:26:00] My video on TikTok, exact same video was on 800 views, exact same video. I even posted it. I posted it. After her actually because I remember looking on TikTok and thinking I didn't post this video. So I posted it after 800 views hers is on 2 million So I was thinking what on earth is going on?

Shivani Pau: But I was like, okay fine I replied to every single comment on that post Because everyone was like who the hell is this because she didn't tag me. I was like me me me me me suddenly my instagram one was going from like I don't know, like 50K views, which I thought was a lot. I was like, Oh my God. Wow.

Shivani Pau: Amazing. Went to like a 100K views, half a million, a million. I think it's on like 6 million now. And it honestly blew up. And my Instagram following went up from like 18 thousand to  60, 000 in like 10 days. It was ridiculous. And it was so funny because my friends were messaging me every day being like 50,000, 55,000,  my mom would come over to my room and be like, you're in 60, 000 now.

Shivani Pau: And I'd be like, Oh my God, like what, what's happening? And then what's interesting, and I want everyone to be aware of this is my whole life, I was, you know, obsessed with [00:27:00] getting more followers because I thought when I get ,when I get more followers, I'll get more brand deals. When I get more followers, I'll have millions of people that want to sponsor my podcast.

Shivani Pau: It doesn't work like that. It really, really, really doesn't. Having more followers is definitely adds to your credibility. And I'm not going to lie about that. It 100 percent does because people look at that and they think you're more influential, which you are. But at the same time, it shouldn't define who you are because at the end of the day, your follower number can change overnight like it did for me.

Shivani Pau: And that's really what I want to tell people is like, I never focused on going viral. I always focused on providing value. And because of that, people then looked up my old videos and then they started following me. People did not follow me because of that one video. People follow me because they looked at that video.

Shivani Pau: Then they looked at my page, they saw the other videos and thought, okay, now I wanna follow Shivani. It's not about creating viral content. It definitely helps. But if your focus is on creating viral content and following the ne, the new trend, it's very easy to move away from your value, and it's very easy to move away from [00:28:00] your why.

Shivani Pau: If you can link those two, wonderful, excellent, that's amazing. But if you are focusing on being viral and you're moving away from your vi, from your why, then people aren't going to follow you because you're not being authentic. And if you're continuously worrying about the numbers, you're always going to worry about what other people want you to do.

Shivani Pau: And you're never going to worry about what you want to spread out in the world. And I think that's, the really my main message now is be yourself. And for so long I wasn't. And this year I feel like I can finally be myself. I can say all the expressions I want. I can act in the way I want. I can swear. I can squint my eyes.

Shivani Pau: I can do whatever I want. And people are okay with that. And at the end of the day, you just have to be yourself. And that's why people will follow you. 

Amardeep Parmar: Yeah. And it's, it's great to hear that as well, that you feel like you can be yourself now. And like you said, that's the important thing that sometimes people don't necessarily get is that it's not gonna be your first video that you do well, that's going to do well.

Shivani Pau: Never.

Amardeep Parmar: But if you're constantly trying to do good content that you think is going to resonate with people. And when [00:29:00] we say resonate with people as well, it's not going to resonate with everybody. Right. And by being who you really are, that's where you find the people who are attracted to that, right. They're the people who like that type of content, who

Amardeep Parmar: feel like you're giving voice to something that they feel inside. And when you can do that consistently, that's when you're really going to take off. But if you're trying to follow every single trend, you might get likes, you might get views, but then there's no overall story, right? And a lot of people lack that and that's where they might get stuck.

Amardeep Parmar: And what you said about following as well, I think it's quite interesting. It's one of the things I think about too, is where a greater following in some ways gives you clout, right? And that means that you can say the same thing when you had 5, 000 followers. People will share you way more than your 50, 000 followers.

Amardeep Parmar: Because it's almost a performative thing as well, where you see a lot with Stephen Bartlett, right? Everybody shares Stephen Bartlett's stuff. There might be somebody else saying the exact same stuff who's got a thousand followers. People also want to be associated with that, right? They want to be associated with the name.

Amardeep Parmar: And that's the interesting thing, and I think if you want to do well in terms of spreading your message, sometimes... That's why the [00:30:00] following count is important because then people perhaps take you more seriously. While they listen to ideas more, but it's not the case of the number of followers for vanity.

Amardeep Parmar: It's like, how can this make your message stronger? 

Shivani Pau: Exactly. 

Amardeep Parmar:And if you're not putting out a message you care about, then it's all a waste of time. 

Shivani Pau: Exactly. 

Amardeep Parmar: Who wants, who wants, do you want to get shared because you're posting something that's going to do well or because it's a message you really believe in?

Shivani Pau: Exactly.

Amardeep Parmar: And  that's what people need to think about too. 

Shivani Pau: And also the buying the followers thing is just so ridiculous to me. If you're buying followers, what on earth are you doing with your life? Because what is the purpose of it? It's it's completely fake. And if you're buying followers and then you're getting brand deals because of it, no brand is going to stay with you consistently.

Shivani Pau: And if you're buying followers to impress other people, you're just lying to yourself. And I think it's so easy to get caught up in that, but I really believe that everyone has something within themselves. That they can share. And I really believe that everyone has something within themselves that they can inspire the people with.

Shivani Pau: And if you find that you find what that special moment is within yourself and you share that the numbers, everything will [00:31:00] come to you. That's why I truly believe. 

Amardeep Parmar: And we talked about this as well, where in your content, you talk a lot about being like a South Asian woman as well, right? 

Shivani Pau: Yeah. 

Amardeep Parmar: And how that's affected your journey and like how people treat you because of that and being asked about when you're going to get married as part of that.

Amardeep Parmar: But how much do you think it's affected you in terms of growing the podcast and growing like your brand now? What do you think is, it's helped you connect with many people in that demographic, but do you think it's hindered you in other ways, or what challenges have you had to overcome because of it?

Shivani Pau: I've never really thought about how it's hindered me, actually, because I've never really been insecure about being Indian. I'm really proud of who I am. I am really Indian. I, you know, speak Gujarati, and I speak Gujarati on my Instagram, too, with my bar, as you probably have seen. So, I've never really felt like it's hindered me, and I've never really experienced a lot of racism.

Shivani Pau: And so I've never really thought about it hindering my, my experiences at all. Everyone in their life will go through experiences that they find challenging and a lot of them want to do with culture, but that's with any culture. I think it just depends what culture you're born into and which family you were raised in.

Shivani Pau: I think in a lot of ways it's really been quite nice [00:32:00] that I've been talking about a lot of those issues because so many other people feel them too. And then there's loads of things that are really amazing. Like I put oil in my hair the other day and went out for brunch. And I used it as a wet look bun and it was great.

Shivani Pau: And loads of people messaged me saying, you know, I used to put, I used to put oil in my hair when I was in school and I used to get teased. And now I can put Olaplex in my hair and it looks great. But a lot of people have a bit of resentment towards that. But it was great to connect with that because I was like, you know, for some people that works and for some people it doesn't and other people, someone actually did comment on that and being like, why didn't you use the oil in your hair to fry some Indian snacks?

Shivani Pau: And I was a bit like, that's so funny. Great. Amazing. Great comment. Great comment. But for me, I'm just not really offended by it because I'm like, I'm proud of who I am. If I want to go out with oil in my hair and go for brunch, it's completely fine. Kim Kardashian goes out with a wet look bun, the oil I use doesn't smell, so why shouldn't I be proud of it?

Shivani Pau: And so I think it's nice to connect with people who have also experienced the same things as you and can perhaps experience future experiences with you as well. 

Amardeep Parmar: Talking about the [00:33:00] future there as well, where's this all heading? So you've obviously, you've got the sponsor now, right? 

Shivani Pau: Yeah. 

Amardeep Parmar:  That's been announced.

Amardeep Parmar: Congratulations on that. 

Shivani Pau:  Thank you. 

Amardeep Parmar: Where do you want to take everything that you're working on? Because obviously you've got the podcast, got the performance planner, you're doing the coaching. What now that you've got more time that you've left your job. I say that because I know that when I quit my job, I ended up feeling the time somehow.

Amardeep Parmar: 

Shivani Pau: I don't think I actually know where my  time is going. Honestly, I'm like, I don't get it. Like how on earth are the days passing when it gets to Friday? I'm like, I want to go back to Monday. I haven't done enough, but honestly, I don't know where the time is going. And when people ask me that question, I hope that Millennial Mind will be at some TV show one day.

Shivani Pau: I hope to have, um, an amazing. space where we can just have these really powerful and powerful conversations and I can make the show bigger and better. And then I hope also to be doing these workshops that I'm doing. I love doing the corporate workshops. It's something within consulting that I always wanted to focus on, which was people, culture, employee engagement.

Shivani Pau: How do we make people at work feel happier to come into work every single day? And [00:34:00] because I'd practiced that at E ON and I was kind of in charge of a team to kind of completely work on transformation. I always wanted to continue doing that, and these corporate workshops are a way for me to do that with so many different companies, which I love.

Shivani Pau: And so for me, the podcaster will hopefully always continue, but be on a bigger and better scale. Hopefully do some live events and some live podcasts. And then with the workshops, I hope again, with those, they just continue as they are because they're just, they're so fulfilling. I remember at work I would, I remember actually so, well, I did a, the, the workshop with McKinsey and it was like 11 at night 'cause they were based in the states and I finished up midnight and I go to bed about 10.

Shivani Pau: So at 11 o'clock, I was really brooking it. I was like, Oh my God, why am I here? What am I doing? I finished up midnight and I felt so happy. And I had this massive like release of endorphins. And then I went to work the next day and I presented something. And sorry, at the end of the McKinsey workshop, the partner stood up and he was clapping.

Shivani Pau: And I remember I got really good feedback. And then I went to work the next day and I was so excited at work. I was [00:35:00] like, hey guys, good morning. Everyone's like, what's happened to you? Like, why are you so cheery this morning? And um, I remember doing a presentation there and everyone was like, alright, okay, so if we just move on to the next one.

Shivani Pau: And I remember thinking like, I, I feel absolutely nothing compared to how I felt after a presentation at a completely incredible, at a bigger firm, doing something I love, rather than giving a presentation about something that I'm not very good at, and something that I don't really enjoy. And I remember at that point I was like, I just need to do more of these workshops.

Shivani Pau: They'll keep me going. And I remember I used to do them my lunch breaks. I used to sometimes do them, like, as I said, on a day off and it just got too much at a point where I was like, okay. I need to now really focus on them and so yeah, now I'm doing more of them, which is really nice and I hope that continues.

Amardeep Parmar: And what are you looking to, what are you doing at the moment to look after your mental health? Because how have you found it from having a job and having the side hustle to then being completely on your own and needing to make all the decisions?  And it's one of the things I think sometimes people don't understand in some [00:36:00] ways is that, and a lot of people sometimes see this on Instagram, right, it looks very cushy, it looks very amazing, oh you got to do what you want.

Shivani Pau: Yeah.

Amardeep Parmar: But getting to do what you want also means you got to do a ton of other stuff, make so many decisions. 

Shivani Pau: So true. 

Amardeep Parmar: How have you found that? Has it been a smooth transition or you..

Shivani Pau: No. 

Amardeep Parmar: Have different problems at the moment?

Shivani Pau: I definitely am struggling a bit. Trying to find my feet, but I don't really talk about it because at the end of the day I've always been raised to remember that I have a lot of personal responsibility. So I've quit my job to do this full time, which means if it's hard I just have to suck it up and get on with it which is why I don't really talk about it because I also think it's quite difficult for people on Instagram to look at you being like, oh you quit your job and now you're complaining about how hard it is like didn't you want to do that this whole time? And so it's it's very hard to find your feet because as scheduled as I am it is also like Oh my God, it's so overwhelming and things come up all the time.

Shivani Pau: And the problem with me is I get very excited. So when I do wanna do one thing, I'll think about another thing, and I think about another thing and I find it very hard to kind of switch off, but I've been taking heights, which is my partner, and they're a supplement. And I really do feel [00:37:00] they've helped me focus.

Shivani Pau: And the other thing I've really found, and I this is, I've never used to do this before and it's actually something that I haven't really told anyone. I watch a lot of TV now. So, on a Saturday or a Sunday, I obviously work in the mornings, but in the evenings now, with my partner, we've started to watch TV, and we've started to watch series, and I never used to watch TV before.

Shivani Pau: And for some reason, I find it a form of escapism, so I don't watch TV in the weekday, because it's just a bit hectic. But on the weekend, I do like to watch TV, and it's reality TV. And it almost makes me feel a bit better about my life because I watch it and I'm like, Oh my God, that's so crazy. And for some reason, when I watch, like, just get into a series, I feel like I find it a form of escapism.

Shivani Pau: But I also, you know, make sure I go for walks every day. I listen to a podcast every day and I love reading. And I've bought a lamp recently, and so at night, I read with my lamp on, and I always fall asleep after about half an hour. But before, I used to leave my light on, and that used to be really hard, because either I'd fall asleep with my [00:38:00] light on, or I would never go to sleep.

Shivani Pau: And I used to listen to a podcast at night, which was really stimulating, and so now I just have half an hour of reading before I go to bed. And you know, on some days, like yesterday, I just felt like  I just need a day to myself and there was so much going on and I have so many deadlines to hit, but I just read for two hours in the afternoon and I felt so good and then today I just feel so happy.

Shivani Pau: So reading is a really big part for me and I think it's like the best form of self care for me. 

Amardeep Parmar: It'll be interesting  to see if you find this as well because what I found is. So I started writing because I enjoyed reading, but then because I wrote so much I don't enjoy reading anymore in some ways because I've seen how the sausage is made, right?

Amardeep Parmar: Because now I analyze things too much. 

Shivani Pau: Yeah. 

Amardeep Parmar: So I'm like, Oh, why didn't they say it in this way? Oh, they don't do that very well. And even with podcasts, it's difficult for me sometimes too, because. I'm now analyzing them. I'm like, Oh, that's a good question. I should ask that question

Shivani Pau:. Yeah. Yeah. I'm like that.

Shivani Pau: I pause the podcast all the time and I write down a question. It's so annoying. Or I pretend I'm on their podcast. It's really annoying.

Amardeep Parmar: Yeah. And it's like, it's hard to switch off. And that's why same thing with me. I watched Netflix and [00:39:00] places like things like that as I escape because you need to switch off.

Amardeep Parmar:  And once you start working for yourself, it's all, your brain's always on and you need that form of escapism. And it's healthy to do that because sometimes you have a lot of like productivity porn that just like, like shames people for watching TV and how they're wasting their time. But it's actually quite important sometimes to have some kind of a distraction.

Shivani Pau: Just  to turn off.  Just not to think about anything. And I think TV does really do that. And I never used to like escape to that, but recently I've just found like it is the only where I can turn off because when I'm exercising, I also think of ideas. This is my problem. When I was exercising the other day, I stopped, I was on the Peloton and then I had to stop it and then reply to some emails because I was like, Oh my God, I forgot about that.

Shivani Pau: And I need to message this person. And then I've ruined my exercise time. So I think having that time for a, you know, just totally switching off, even if, if it's for one hour a week, whatever you want to do for some people, it's meditation for some people, it's going for a run, but you don't always have to follow the status quo of going for a cold shower, meditating and waking up at 5am doesn't work for everyone.

Shivani Pau: And that's totally fine. 

Amardeep Parmar: Yeah. [00:40:00] And I think so much of that is important is about, you've got to understand yourself, right? If you understand yourself, then you do things that work for you. It's like, don't try to be like me or try to be like you. We can give you ideas, but you've got to test them for yourself.

Amardeep Parmar: If they work for you, continue doing them, but don't just keep like, for example, like waking up at 5am. If you can't wake up at 5am, don't keep doing it just because you want to be like Tim Ferriss or whoever you want to be like. And that gives us the freedom of it, right? Is that I have things that other people consider bad habits, but they help keep me sane.

Shivani Pau: Yeah. I love that. 

Amardeep Parmar: And we're in the final few minutes now. We're going to go through a few quick fire questions. So firstly, who's three people you'd like to shout out? 

Shivani Pau: Uh,  God, this is so difficult. Okay, I would actually say Sonali. So she's Soul Space London. She creates these bracelets. The reason I want to shout her out is I met her when I had like 5, 000 followers and she, from the moment I met her, really believed in me.

Shivani Pau: And she's been so supportive and she's just been someone that I can call and be like, I'm feeling really low and she'll be like, okay, this is what you need to do. And what I love about her is when I did a podcast with someone, it was [00:41:00] so heavy. The next day she called me and she said, are you okay? Because I know you're really sensitive and I know you all take that energy in and I just, and recently as well, she sells her bracelets at like, she does like pop ups and she loved my performance planner so much, she was like, I'll just sell it for you.

Shivani Pau: And I just think people like that are so special. So Soul Space London, I really want to shout out Tulsi. She is somebody I interviewed, and she is so inspiring and so kind and has been through such a tough time and is just really trying to raise self awareness and someone who's just so strong and amazing.

Shivani Pau: I absolutely loved her. She had such positive energy about her, so I really want to shout her out. Okay, and I also want to shout out Nisha Parmar, because she's someone that has really, really, really believed in me from the beginning. And I think that having people around you who really support you and really believe in your vision and not necessarily, you know, there's people will always support you when you have a big following, but when you have a small following and people are like, you know, you can do this, like I believe in you, [00:42:00] sometimes it really, really helps.

Shivani Pau: So I think there's, I'm so grateful to my audience as well. I know this is cheating. I'm going to add a fourth one, but I'm so grateful to my audience because I really believe there's been so many people that have been so pivotal and helping me and sharing and supporting that without them, I don't think I'd have the confidence to keep going.

Amardeep Parmar: 

Amardeep Parmar: Yeah. And speaking of that, like what can our audience reach out to you about? What can you help them with? 

Shivani Pau: Yeah. So I've actually created my first online community, which is really exciting. The link is in my bio and on there I'm going to be doing, so you know, the corporate workshops I'm doing, I'm going to be sharing those exact workshops with my audience.

Shivani Pau: So you can sign up, you can come to whichever workshop you want. And one of them is actually going to be how to grow, start and scale your podcast. And then on there as well, I'm going to be having special discounts. I offer one to one coaching. I'm going to offer you the group coaching. So with that, you can

Shivani Pau: access all my services in one place, which is exciting.

Amardeep Parmar:  Perfect. Then what can people, what do you need help with? What's something that people listening right now, maybe they've got a skill that maybe you need?

Shivani Pau: Yeah.I think, you know, graphic design, [00:43:00] I'm really bad with the logos. Um, anything actually, this is a question to the audience.

Shivani Pau: If you feel I can improve on anything in my podcast, please reach out and tell me how you can help me improve it. ‘Cause I'm very open to anything. 

Amardeep Parmar: Right. Well, it's been great to have you on. 

Shivani Pau:Thank you so much. 

Amardeep Parmar: Have you got any final words for the audience? 

Shivani Pau: I don't. I've, you know, I've really enjoyed coming on this podcast.

Shivani Pau: It's funny because I just recorded a podcast the same position, but I was asking the questions, but it's really nice to actually come on and share. And I think you're doing a really great job and you're inspiring so many people. So thank you so much for having me on.

Amardeep Parmar: Thank you for listening to the BAE  HQ podcast today. In our mission to inspire, connect and guide the next generation of British Asian entrepreneurs, it would mean so much to us if you could subscribe to our channel, leave a review and share this with your friends.

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