Turning Visa Roadblocks into Opportunities via a Social Investing Platform w/ Harjas Singh | Shares

Harjas Singh: 0:00

You know, you study for four years. You're kind of brought up in this culture of their education system. Then you get a job where you're basically contributing to their economy, paying your taxes. You're actually educated and you're adding value, but you're put through a random lottery process where your fate is based on a lottery. If you don't get the lottery, you're essentially out being a STEM major. I had three opportunities and I didn't get it three times. Eventually, I feel like all happens for a reason and my destiny was to actually move to London.

‍Amardeep Parmar: 0:36

Today on the podcast we have Harjas Singh, co-founder of Shares. It's a social investing app which allows people to invest and learn from a community of peers and more experienced investors. Harjas just grew up in Delhi before going across the university in the States, starting his career out there, being deported or not being allowed to stay, moving to the UK where he then discovered the startup ecosystem and fell in love with the product, which led him to what he's doing today. Shares has grown incredibly quickly in a short amount of time and it's great to have him on the episode today. I'm Amar from the BAE HQ and this podcast is powered by HSBC Innovation Banking. So great to have you here today and obviously you've been able to do so much in your career. But if you look back to when you were a kid growing up, obviously you weren't born here either. What was that like? What did you want to be? What were your ambitions?

Harjas Singh: 1:29

Yeah, I think there were quite a few things that I circled through, uh, to decide what I wanted to do. Firstly, I was wanting to be a doctor for a long time. It's a typical, uh, indian thing for parents to expect that of you. So for the longest time this was a notion that was imposed on me. Hey, you should be a doctor. That's quite cool. I'll be doing surgeries, operations.

Harjas Singh: 1:53

Then I started getting more involved in sports throughout my eighth to 10th grade. During that time I was playing a lot of tennis and I felt like being a tennis player would be a great idea. My mom didn't really appreciate that. And in 11th and 12th, when I picked science as a subject to study, naturally a lot of my time was being devoted to academics. So there went my tennis dream. Now I can only sip a Pimms at Wimbledon but can't play. And then, finally, when I was studying the sciences, I had a deep interest in math and I felt that math and computer science was something that was easy for me to do. It wasn't something like core physics, where, or chemistry, where I just spent a lot of time. So I picked computer science essentially because I feel like it came naturally to me. So I decided to be a software engineer and at that time as well.

Amardeep Parmar: 2:43

So now I think it's more sexy. It's against computer engineering, right. But if you were going to be a software engineer, and at that time as well so now I think it's more sexy to go into computer engineering, right. But if you were going to be a doctor and then you switched to computer engineering, was that something which you got supported with or people like, yeah, that's a good idea, or were you quite confident in your decision at the time, or were you doubting yourself?

Harjas Singh: 2:57

I honestly chose the least, the path of least resistance. I figured out that being a doctor would take a lot more work, so I was like no, don't want to do that. What is like literally the easiest thing I can do. So I felt that math was easy, um, like studying computer science early on was was it just came native to me and I figured that I'll do that and essentially it was still under the engineering realm, so it was okay with my parents and the rest of the fam. So I did that.

Amardeep Parmar: 3:26

So obviously we've got a connection as well outside of the startup world, with the dance space, right? Yeah, so I think what's really interesting a lot of founders and people have done well. They've got a lot of things in their past which are kind of signals. So, like you said, you played tennis. So people who are into sport, people into dance, people, into these different things, it helps them quite a lot. So what did you do at university, on the side of your studies as well?

Harjas Singh: 3:48

Right. So when I went to the US bear in mind I was from Delhi I had never danced. I knew that Bhangra is our cultural dance but I'd never actually expressed myself except for you know, embarrassingly doing it at weddings. But when I went to the US, there was this crazy Bhangra scene. It was amazing to see and witness and I was at Virginia Tech and the Bhangra team was was insane, like I was just in awe of these guys and particularly their community. Was was just so warm and loving. They would compete.

Harjas Singh: 4:17

They would go to these competitions after parties where you could meet a lot of similar-minded people so.

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Amardeep Parmar:

I was wondering where you were going to go there, where you can meet a lot of who.

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Harjas Singh: 4:27

Yeah, exactly, yeah, you know. It was a good way to meet a lot of people and essentially I felt more attracted to the lifestyle in the community and dance was an avenue to get there. So I tried to get involved in the dance team. Initially I was very bad. The first time I auditioned I was rejected. Then I started getting kind of close to the people in the dance team and they started training me on the side. Second time I made it to the B team and then slowly, once the seniors had graduated out, it was time for us to step up and that's when we took on the mantle and started kind of leading the team to multiple competitions and it was the perfect way for me to express myself outside of, you know, the academic world or the degree that you're there for. So I really thank bangra for for helping me explore this avenue on the side.

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Amardeep Parmar:

What it's interesting there as well.

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Amardeep Parmar: 5:18

You said how you sucked when you're younger. Then you didn't get into the team at the beginning and then you worked your way up and I think even that mentality there's a lot of people who wouldn't do that right. You get rejected from the team, oh okay, like I'm rubbish, let's not carry on, let's not even try it. So the fact you then carried on and said you made the B team, and that kind of mentality obviously then transfers quite well to going later in your career as well. And you also said about moving to from Delhi to the US as well. How was was that transition?

Harjas Singh: 5:44

Yeah, I would say it was an insane move. I had actually never visited the States before, so the first time I land there is for college. My dad drops me off and it's like a jungle, you know, you go, you explore, you figure out who you actually are. And I think Bhangra was the closest thing that made me still connected to my roots there. It was something that I could kind of, you know, resonate with. I was initially even helping the team with just like building the mixes, because I felt like, okay, if I can't dance, let me try to sneak my way into like helping them figure out what's good music for each segment. So that's something also I did. And eventually, you know, I really just wanted to get into the after parties. So I kept trying again and again to get into the team and I befriended a person on the team who became my roommate, so that became a whole lot easier to practice in our downtime at night, kept teaching me segments, choreo again and again and eventually got better.

Amardeep Parmar: 6:44

And then. So you said you went down the software engineering, right? So once you left university, I guess you got a few different choices right. You can either stay in the States, you can go back to India and work there. How did you make that decision of where you're going to continue your career?

Harjas Singh: 6:57

Yeah. So I think when I graduated I really wanted to get some industry experience in the States. I didn't feel it quite a wise move to just get the degree and head back, so I really wanted to get some industry experience in the States. Plus, I had graduated with computer science so I started my career as a software engineer. I did that for two or three years and eventually I ran out of my visa time in the States so I had to look for another place to work. And that's when London came calling and I moved to London.

Amardeep Parmar: 7:27

And even at that point, as I say, if you were a software engineer, you'd think that's quite a high in demand job, and I know a lot of people right now who have the visa situation where they're trying to work Okay, I want to stay in the UK, but then the visa is running out, and things like that. How was that process for you? Was it quite a stressful period?

Harjas Singh: 7:43

I would say it was the most stressful period in my life. Essentially, the visa system in the States is broken. You study for four years, you're kind of brought up in this culture of their education system. Then you get a job where you're basically contributing to their economy, you're paying your taxes, you're actually educated and you're adding value, but you're put through a random lottery process where your fate is based on a lottery and if you don't get the lottery you're essentially out. And being a STEM major, I had three opportunities for the lottery and I didn't get it three times. So at this point I thought my life was over. And my parents were like praying and stuff you know at home and I didn't get it three times. So at this point I thought my life was over and my parents were like praying and stuff you know at home and I didn't get it. And eventually I feel like all happens for a reason and my destiny was to actually move to London and that's why I wasn't getting it there. That's what I try to believe.

Amardeep Parmar: 8:40

So, when you were in London, what did you start as? What did you come here to work as? So? So, when you were in London, what did you start as?

Harjas Singh: 8:44

What did you come here to work as? So my company at the time, Deutsche Bank, moved me here as a software engineer. So I really tried extremely hard to find an opening and I managed to find a job in London and convincing the people I was working with to move me here At the time they weren't doing this for an analyst or an associate at my level, it was only for directors or managing directors. But I was just like persistent, kept emailing hiring managers in London. I was like, hey, I'm running out of my visa, I would love to work for you. Eventually, one kind of you know, the opportunity happened and I then essentially moved to London as a software engineer for my company at the time.

Amardeep Parmar: 9:24

And moving across to London, so you've got the experience. Obviously the American working culture is very different to the UK working culture in many ways. What have you preferred so far when you were in that role? Because obviously it's the same role in two different countries.

Harjas Singh: 9:37

Yeah, it was. I think I would say that the first thing was the time off, which was very different. So in the US I wasn't used to getting 30 holidays a year and for the longest time in London, when I was working here, I didn't take any vacation because I was just used to working throughout the year and maybe taking a week off at the end of the year. So I think that was one of the biggest changes and, yeah, I think people were. I would say, during the work year. People do work in a very similar manner, except for there's more of a concept of work-life balance here than it was back in the States.

Amardeep Parmar: 10:15

And you obviously then moved on from Deutsche Bank. What was the next step for you? The?

Harjas Singh: 10:19

next step for me was Revolut, and that happened. There are a few actually very interesting coincidences that brought me there. So the very first time I arrived to London, I get into a random Airbnb and as soon as I arrived, there's this girl staying there and she works at Revolut. She tells me hey, I'm at Revolut. I'm like, okay, cool, I didn't even know what it was. She tells me oh, you're a software engineer. We're looking for engineers all the time. You should come work. I was like, thanks, I'm good, I've just arrived here, let me work. I want a visa, I'm just going to stick to my job, right.

Harjas Singh: 10:55

But slowly, as I kind of immersed myself into London, I realized that I couldn't open a bank account without a permanent address and I couldn't start paying people. And one of my friends at Deutsche told me hey, you should get Revolut. Man, there's this app, you get set up and then you can immediately start paying people. That was essentially mind-blowing for me. I was like this is a cool solution, because Lloyd's or any of the banks weren't allowing me to do that. So that was my first kind of interesting encounter. And then, when I found my permanent flat, I was roommates with a very early employee at Revolut who also then started to ask me to join and get a referral bonus and, as you can see, that referral bonus is very, very lucrative. So all of these things combined led me to start looking into Revolut and at the same time, I was having a very interesting time in my career where I was looking to get into product development as opposed to software engineering, and so I started off at Revolut as a product person.

Amardeep Parmar: 11:55

I found that the secret to your career here is who your roommates are. It's like how'd you get good at Bungra Roommate? How'd you get a job at Revolut Roommate? Absolutely. So. That's the key takeaway I think so far. Yeah, get great roommates, don't live alone. Yeah, and once you started revolut, so it's a very different culture, I'm assuming to deutsch bank. Yeah, how has that moved to the more startup fast growth ecosystem?

Harjas Singh: 12:17

I think I was craving that. A part of me inside of me was at the deutsche was. This is great. Um, there's a very structured approach to rise to the top. It's like you spend three years in a row, then you do the next thing, Then you have another three years or two years. If you're really good, you could even do it in a year. But it was essentially like a ladder and I don't think I was cut out for that kind of life, because you have a very, very limited ownership surface area and I wanted to work in a fast-paced environment where I could really truly learn and make an impact. So I think when I entered Revolut, it was basically like you have to do like everything. I started as a very junior product person and over there I was an ops person, marketing person, design person, working with engineering team. Pretty much the entire stack is what was expected and naturally I loved it. So I was able to give a number of hours to just honing my craft there.

Amardeep Parmar: 13:13

How did that then progress Before you left Revolut? Where did you get to? Because I'm sure there for a little while.

Harjas Singh: 13:17

Yeah, I was there for two years. When I joined Revolut, we were in very early stages of launching the wealth and trading product, so Revolut wanted to essentially launch a very similar product to Robinhood, which was single stocks trading, and this is the team I was working on. So when I joined, we launched it to a very early bunch of users and I stayed there for two years, built the entire product with an awesome team and we scaled it to more than 2 million users by the time I left, and now the team is still crushing it. They're launching many more exciting features and making wealth management accessible to all.

Amardeep Parmar: 13:50

So, as we've seen there, you worked at Deutsche Bank, which is pretty much as corporate as corporate. Comes then Revolut, which is a fast growing side. When was it the idea that you started to think about maybe I should do my own thing, or maybe I could go ahead and build my own startup?

Harjas Singh: 14:04

I think there was a thought inside of me very early on in my life that I wanted to do my own thing. Now how I would end up there I wasn't quite clear, and for a majority of my life I was constricted by immigration rules of countries that were preventing me to express myself In the US. I couldn't even start a legal entity on my visa. Then I moved to London and even here I was tied to an employer. So essentially I'm kind of trapped right. I can't really leave them and start my own thing. If I leave, I have to leave the country. So I started thinking that it was a good time for me to explore a business opportunity and that would allow me to switch my visa status as well into an entrepreneur tier one visa, and because Revolut was doing really well at the time, it really helped me acquire the right immigration status to then finally be able to launch my own thing.

Amardeep Parmar: 14:56

And where did the idea come from? What was the idea for what you're?

Harjas Singh: 14:59

doing now. Yeah, the idea was very interesting, so I want to take you back to 2021. Essentially, I'm it was a zero interest rate era. People were stuck at home, they weren't really spending on the restaurants and bars and a lot of money getting saved up in their accounts. This money was finding itself into capital markets, other assets, and we saw all assets go up. But I think, more importantly, what happened at this time was that investing became cool. Investing became part of popular culture. We saw what happened with the short squeeze of GME, amc, the rise of Wall Street bets. So there was an intense amount of activity in this space.

Harjas Singh: 15:38

But there was a problem. The problem was that people were signing up to these brokerage products, but majority of the discourse was happening outside of these products. It was happening on platforms like Reddit, discord and essentially it was disjointed. So our proposition was that while you sign up to your investing product, you should be able to do that discourse on the product. That's where you make the decision, along with your friends or network, to invest. So that was a thesis, and I obviously was skilled at building a trading product and at Revolut as well. We were exploring a social proposition, but I think it was a much more complex idea to execute there because of regulatory hurdles and, as well as the infrastructure of the app, wasn't designed to be social. So I left and started to build a social investing platform.

Amardeep Parmar: 16:29

And you've got co-founders as well, right? How did you find those co-founders? How did you find the people?

Harjas Singh: 16:33

Yeah, it was like very like. It was serendipity. So at the time I was like, working on this idea with a close friend of mine, I got connected to one of my co-founders who was always also working on the same idea and when we were raising, it was the right time to team up, because if you have a team with complementary skill sets, you're able to actually raise more and execute faster. So it was completely random. I hadn't known these guys before, but it was essentially aligning on the idea, which was the same and our ways of working was was similar, so we decided to partner up.

Amardeep Parmar: 17:25

You're just talking to an AI assistant or you're talking to somebody who doesn't really understand what it is you've been trying to do. Hwc have got the team they've built out over years to make sure they understand what you're doing. They've got the deep sector expertise and they can help connect you with the right people to make your dreams come true. So if you want to learn more, check out hwcinnovationbankingcom. It's interesting because I see a lot of pitch decks and you get a lot of pitch decks where basically it's interesting.

Amardeep Parmar: 17:52

I see, I see a lot of pitch decks and you get you've got a lot of pitch decks where basically it's the same idea, like you said, and you can see two different founders. You're thinking like, if they work together, then they have this skill set, they have that skill set, they cover the the issues. But sometimes there's that pride element right of people wanting to be the boss and want to be the one in charge, and it blinds them to actually, if they work together, could do so much more. How did that process go, was it? Could you walk us through that, because I imagine there's people listening right now, who might think oh, maybe I could actually work my competitors and we could build something better with that I think it's very important to understand that no business is going to be successful until you have like you understand your role as as a part of a team.

Harjas Singh: 18:30

So I think uh, I think it's like about dropping your egos at the door and really figuring out what are you good at and what value you can add. So in my co-founders I understood that one of my co-founders is a CTO understood that this person has incredible amounts of experience building engineering infrastructure, so this person will be awesome for us to scale as we grow a trading platform, which is very necessary. My other co-founder, who is a CEO he has amazing experiences building and scaling companies, which also we would need as we scale. And myself, I knew that I was very good at creating products. I'd done that at Revolut. I knew that I wanted to learn more by doing this myself, but that was my craft and I think, as long as you understand what you can add to the team and you understand other people's talents, I think you can work with pretty much anyone.

Amardeep Parmar: 19:20

I guess, were you trying to fundraise with your own company to begin with, and then you merged together and then tried to fundraise afterwards?

Harjas Singh: 19:25

Yeah, I was trying to find my own avenues. Um, and it was very exactly the same idea with a couple of my team members at ref. And then eventually I met my co-founders and they were like, hey, we're doing the same thing, steam up. I was like, okay, how do you think about this? How do you think about that? They're like we need to grow fast. I was like, all right, let's do it. So we, we decided to do that. I built up a very early prototype and we started circulating. That got very positive feedback and then, once we raised our seed round, we went for it to execute very fast and build the actual platform.

Amardeep Parmar: 19:57

And you mentioned there about your passion being the product side of things Can you talk us through some of the decisions you made in those early days that you think really made you stand out to investors that this is something which is above what everybody else is trying to do?

Harjas Singh: 20:09

Yeah, I think there's a very key difference. The first thing is that a lot of the social products in the market that I was looking at, they were thinking of social as an afterthought. They were trying to shove down social on top of a product that wasn't architected to be social. So the way we thought about it was that from the very beginning, as soon as you onboard, you should be connecting to other people. So the very way we designed the product was social from zero.

Harjas Singh: 20:36

And the other thing we thought about which was that when you make a post on X or when you make a post on Instagram, the proof of work that you do is actually the post or the words that you write. But for investing, what was that proof of work? And for us, the way we defined that was the moment in time is the trade. When you're about to execute a trade on, let's say, Nvidia or Tesla, at that point you're essentially signaling to the community that I believe in this company, and that's what we thought was the proof of work, and we made that social. So as soon as you make a trade, you're actually able to write about it and explain to the world why you're doing this thing. So those are two key things that we changed out about the product and that resonated deeply with the people we pitched to.

Amardeep Parmar: 21:20

And with that kind of platform as well, with social media, the social element of that one of the key things is the network, right? If there's only one person on the platform, it's not very useful. So you have to try and grow, like you said, very fast in order to get lots of people on there to make it worth people sharing. How did you think about that? How did you structure that to make sure that you had that critical mass of people? I guess?

Harjas Singh: 21:41

Yeah, it was actually quite tough. So initially what we did was we focused on people who had existing chats about investing, so we knew that these people were already doing this. Instead of targeting people who had no idea about investing, we focused on people who were quite savvy, they understood how to trade and they had this WhatsApp or Telegram chat where they were just shit posting and talking about the market. So we targeted those people, got them started on our product as early adopters and we built the initial community around them. And even now it's like the first thousand two thousand users are the one who are the most engaged on the social side of things. The rest of the people they come, they trade, they observe, they might like some content, but still the most value is created by that tiny faction of users we onboarded at the beginning because I remember this time, obviously with it with um, gamestop, gamestop.

Amardeep Parmar: 22:30

I can never remember which one it is, gamestop, yeah, so obviously that was with robin hood and everybody using red at the time. And it does make a lot of sense, like I said, because there's this platform, reddit, which is also unverified, right? Because I guess that's another big part of this which I'd see is that by using the shares on the same platform as the social media side, you know that the person actually made that trade, whereas a lot of times, when we'll shoot bets, for example, people we try and manipulate the markets, they can just make stuff up, whereas you have the other side too. Was that part of the thinking as well?

Harjas Singh: 23:02

yeah, absolutely. And we noticed on reddit that a lot of people were sharing screenshots of a portfolio that wasn't theirs and they were showing numbers of profits they made on a portfolio that wasn't theirs and they were showing numbers of profits they made on a stock which wasn't theirs and this was just driving prices up because people were like, oh, this person made X amount of money and I want to do the same, but our product. Everyone has to go through an identity check. You have to be kyc. You need to be a real person. We need to verify your funding source, make sure you're not a dodgy person and there's no bot issues. Everyone's real and you can see on the other person's portfolio exactly what they're doing. So you need to like be able to walk the talk. You know you can't just say I'm doing this and not be able to connect that back to your portfolio because it's interesting as well.

Amardeep Parmar: 23:43

Obviously, you see all the scams on instagram places like that, because people just take a screenshot and just misrepresent it, so I think that's quite a key element here. It's quite interesting about how it solves for that as well, especially with trust. I think is such a huge element and obviously, when you initially built this, you had the idea about the social side of things and how it's going to feature. What were the things that people were asking for those early days that maybe you didn't quite consider early on, but you then added to the product because of the demand from the users.

Harjas Singh: 24:10

Yeah, I think there was something around initially when we had the social layer. You could do a lot like just post anyone could post anything and I think what we started seeing was people were just posting like test one, two, three, or the social feed was basically getting clogged up by random comments. So we made some critical decisions to allow, initially, only certain people to post, people who knew what they were doing, so that when you, as a new user, come, you don't really see just random posts that don't make any sense. Alongside that, we invested a bit into our messaging capability so you're able to respond with reactions, you're actually able to share stocks within a chat, things that just help you talk to other people regarding the problem space. So we invested a bit in that. We also had launched initially, a concept that we've invalidated for now was this concept of communities, so you could actually create a Tesla community and have people within that just talk about Tesla.

Harjas Singh: 25:06

I think we hadn't quite reached a point where we should have enabled that. We were a bit early. I think you need to achieve a critical scale before you start having social communities. So that didn't work. We killed that, but now we keep the feed extremely simple. So we think that simplicity is great. So as soon as you make a trade, your connections can see. Now our feed has just for you, and discover very similar to X and threads for you is very much catered to you. But discover feed is where the magic is. You actually discover opportunities you wouldn't have otherwise and that's how we've structured the product now.

Amardeep Parmar: 25:42

And obviously it's been going for a few years now and you've been able to raise quite a significant amount of money as well. What have been some of your biggest wins? What are the things you're most proud of on the journey?

Harjas Singh: 25:51

I think the biggest win for us was being able to secure the French license on a regulatory standpoint, because that allows us now to passport into all European countries. I think, like any business, getting distribution is key, and I think in this space, what matters really is the regulatory approvals to be able to ship product, and that's the most difficult thing about operating in the fintech space is you can't just wake up, make a product and ship it. You need to make sure that you're authorized, you have a full system that the regulators are happy with. So I think that was the biggest win. And the second biggest win was being able to secure Venus and Serena Williams as our brand ambassadors and investors. We're really inspired by their story and it really says a lot when they're able to associate it with us and everyone can see that they see value in a platform like shares.

Amardeep Parmar: 26:44

How did you manage that to get Serena and?

Harjas Singh: 26:45

Venus on. So I think Serena and Venus they have been investing more and more in the European ecosystem space. So they have Serena Ventures, which is a platform where they actually look at startups. So we got connected through the venture firm. They started looking at us. They really resonated with the mission that we're on and actually our platform gets a lot of new users Majority of them are women on our platform, primarily because our experience is extremely simple.

Harjas Singh: 27:13

Traditionally, products have been very intimidating to people. They're very complex to understand. It is a trading product, so you have all these charts, numbers that can be quite intimidating to someone who doesn't understand investing. So I think we've managed to build Simplicity in a product space that is, by default, very complex, and I think this really resonated with them. And it took a long time, but fortunately, after a while, we were able to secure that and now we launched a brand film with them. We brought them to Viva Tech in Paris on stage, where they were able to talk to a lot of tech people in the audience and show why they're actually so excited about shares.

Amardeep Parmar: 27:54

What are you excited about at the moment? So obviously you're continuing to go. You're building more of the product out, what's really exciting, that's coming up soon for you or that you're working on?

Harjas Singh: 28:03

I think for me, we're really going deep into the French market. So it's a market. I'm not French, but I think for me, as a product person, it's to really understand how that demographic works or thinks about investing. So I really have to immerse myself more into the psyche of how people over there think about investing. So for us, we have now structured our company into three verticals the first one, which is the product or the app that regular people find and invest with.

Harjas Singh: 28:34

Number two is something that we're doing. It's for businesses. So if you have a business, you're a freelancer, you have cash in the account that is just stale. You can invest that through shares. So we've just launched shares for business. And third, but not the least, we're actually making a foray into wealth management. So it's a very old school way of doing business. You have financial advisors who manage wealth of very wealthy clients and they do so with a very clunky product. So we're actually offering them a very slick, very easy to use, a customizable product by which they can manage wealth of people who suddenly become very rich or they don't know what to do with this cash. So they'll be able to do so through shares. So I think, once we conquer the French market, the goal will be to do the same in the rest of the European markets, which is again very different cultures, very different understanding of investing. So yeah, there's no boring or dull day.

Amardeep Parmar: 29:30

Because obviously, like you said, where you went from these very large companies such as Deutsche Revolution to then going into ground zero, and they're just junior co-founders. How is it now? So obviously you've had these different steps and different stages of company growth. Which bits have you enjoyed the most, or where do you feel like your talents really shine the most?

Harjas Singh: 29:48

I think the biggest like wins for us are when we listen to the customers. You know, this is like the core of product development is like listen to the problem that they're having and then build a solution that solves it. So I think right now we're trying to map out all the problems that French people have around investing. One of the biggest issues is finding a tax-efficient way to invest that's similar to the UK. There is an ISA account here, so in France there is a very similar wrapper and we're trying to build this tax efficient wrapper in France. I think initially we were a lot about the sexy features, but I think now our approach is very much like people want tax efficiency, they want things that work for them and we're very much focused in giving them those tools and capabilities to grow their wealth.

Amardeep Parmar: 30:36

Like from your perspective as well. So we've had the teams grown and all these different things. What's your biggest lessons in your own personal growth and development along that journey too, I don't know, man, do we have three, four hours?

Harjas Singh: 30:49

I think? There's so, so many lessons. Uh, the three years I've been been insane because, uh, we, we grew extremely fast within a year, year and a half, and now we're at a point where we're more lean, more efficient, uh, so I think, in retrospect, it's really about keeping a lean small team until you're able to crack the problem space and having A players on your team, so people who really understand where you're trying to go, how you're going to get there, and they're not afraid to work hard. So I think those are lessons that I've learned, and I think every day is a lesson, but around hiring and talent, those are key things that I think I've understood deeply now, and how do you find those A players?

Amardeep Parmar: 31:31

How do you attract those A players and know that you've got an A player, not somebody who maybe can talk the talk, but actually when they're working for you they're not quite the same.

Harjas Singh: 31:43

I think there's ways, I believe it's a science. I think you can structure your interview in a way where you can get those signals. There's a way to reference, check these people to make sure that they've consistently performed high. Then looking at how they performed in their school journey, were they involved in sports, were they always high achievers? So I think's way to filter candidates out. But also, a lot of times you'll find people who might not have an impressive resume then do extremely well in the in the team. And that goes back more into their mental makeup uh, figuring out what their childhood or journey was like. Uh, do they have a chip on their shoulder? What is it that they really want to prove? And I think once you can nurture them correctly, uh, they can become a players. And then, obviously, performance making sure you're incentivizing them correctly, making sure they're working to accomplish goals that you're setting for them.

Amardeep Parmar: 32:34

So it's about pre-hiring and then post-hiring and then converting people who are maybe average into a so at the time recording this, I think it's gonna be shut by the time this episode gets released. We're now hiring a founder associate.

Amardeep Parmar: 32:47

So I'm asking you this because I'm going to now use this myself because we're trying to work out how do you get those diamonds in the rough right. People are there, but maybe they haven't had the best opportunities when they're growing up. They haven't had all these different chances. Maybe other people have, but the fact that they've got where they have despite that is what we're kind of looking for and it's like it's what you mentioned there about their childhood and the things that happened. But asking people like what's the hardest thing you've been through and I think you can learn a lot about somebody about that what they consider hard, because sometimes people like, oh, I didn't get my grade for this, so I didn didn't do this. It was actually other people that have been through really tough times and I think that grit and resilience is something which we want in order to grow that team.

Harjas Singh: 33:28

Yeah, I think that's the right way to think about it. I think there was a debate or article I was looking at recently where they were looking at the top American universities people from the Harwards, the Yales, the Browns no-transcript, you know, maybe they just didn't get the opportunity, but they want to prove to people around them that they can do it. And I think a person who, as a founder's associate, I'm guessing this person will be working as your right-hand person, so that entrepreneur ability, ability to get things done, get things done fast and just never give up attitude so thanks so much for coming on.

Amardeep Parmar: 34:28

We're gonna go to a quick five questions now because of time. So first one is who are three british asians you think are doing incredible work and just shout them out?

Harjas Singh: 34:37

the first one is, uh, initial parik. Uh, this initial was my co-worker at revolute. He is one of the top product people in the, the wealth management space. I would say, uh. Number two is, uh, yas rustam. Uh, he's building incredible. Uh, which is a company in the uk as well. And number three is a person I work with now, harry kawa. He is ops manager. He does some incredible work in the brokerage space and I'm really proud of his journey where he started and where he's come.

Amardeep Parmar: 35:07

And if people want to find out more about you and more about shares, where should they?

Harjas Singh: 35:10

go to. Well, you can go to our website. I've also recently started a sub stack where I'm writing more about my product journey and learnings, and also you can find me on LinkedIn or Instagram.

Harjas Singh: 35:21

And is there anything that you need help with right now or shares needs help with, that people listening today might be able to reach out and help you with I guess, uh, share with us, um, about the problems that you encounter with money, like there could be any problems, but like what are your like barriers that are keeping you from putting your money to work? Any learningss across any geographies will really help us understand tools that we can build to solve those problems for you.

Amardeep Parmar: 35:46

So again, thanks so much for coming on. Have you got any final words?

Harjas Singh: 35:49

I just want to say thank you to you. I'm really proud of what you're doing and accomplishing and giving British Asians a voice in the platform. Please continue doing that and thank you for having me.

Amardeep Parmar: 35:59

Thank you for watching. Don't forget to subscribe. See you next time.

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