How HR 3.0 Can Help You Scale w/ Rani Ahmed | Joelson

Rani Ahmed: 0:00

Now, but 3.0 is effectively taking operational HR into a more strategic direction.

‍Amardeep Parmar: 0:07

Today we're talking all about HR 3.0, and how you can use HR for strategic purposes. This includes your behavioral science, looking through personality profiles and how you can use them effectively, how you can get behind from the team to make this effective, and some of the latest trends in HR that can really to startups that are trying to right now. We've got with us our expert, Rani Ahmed, who is the head of HR at Joelson. They're a law firm that specializes in helping founders throughout their journey. Joelson is also our exclusive legal partners. We're the BAE HQ and I'm Amar, and this podcast is powered by HSBC Innovation Banking. So, Rani, you're a big advocate of HR 3.0, and, if I'm being honest, I didn't hear about that until about half an hour ago when we were chatting. So it'll be a great for you to introduce the audience to this idea of how is HR evolving and what is HR 3.0?.

Rani Ahmed: 1:03

Yeah, no, totally understand, and it's something that is fairly new to the HR profession as well, I think with any industry or any sort of businesses, they're always evolving. We've seen web 2.0, et cetera and so on. So it's inevitable that sort of operational teams will also evolve over time and will focus their attention into different areas as well. So HR 3.0 is really very much taking a viewpoint of HR into the new era Post COVID. There has been so many changes around HR practices, what they've needed to do, what they've needed to prepare for, and it's been amazing to see actually in some ways, the evolution and the transformation over the past four years. As it stands now, but 3.0 is effectively taking operational HR into a more strategic direction and it's giving a framework into what HR effectively has been doing anyway. But actually it's now acknowledging it and recognizing it and providing the right tools and the right strategy to think about how the HR, or people and culture functions can really help businesses to succeed so effectively. You know HR, the gambit everybody's like like oh HR, will know what to do, or HR knows the policy, et cetera. And if I could get a pound for every time somebody says that I'd be very, very rich. But effectively, the model now is designed to think about HR as being almost like product managers, so very similar to, perhaps, how you as a business will be creating a service or a product for your consumer base or client base. Effectively, HR has to do the same thing. They're also becoming more relationship brokers. They're becoming psychologists in a way. So I've always termed HR to almost be like life coaches, because you're seeing individuals coming and joining the organization and you see them develop. You'll see them change through their sort of career path and also personal circumstances too. So we always try and look at it from that perspective of an informed approach as to what makes people tick, how do you motivate them, how to retain them and see what's best for their interests. Also is looking at still maintaining the operational processes. That's always going to be there. You're never going to get away from policies, unfortunately, but it's designing them in a way so that they are more human and they're becoming far more easier to translate and communicate. There's gone other days where everything is so strict and there are opportunities to have that common sense approach and having people take accountability, but giving the right messaging and protection and psychological safety in a way for people to feel like they are being looked after whilst they're working in their organizations and also looking at systems, so becoming sort of designers in a way, of how that employee life cycle works with everybody and individually. What is the tech that's going to be required, what's the performance measurement indicators etc. How would that be measured? And really looking at that sort of analysis of the information to give a more informed decision approach, because I think all too often HR can often be considered to have very much of a people would think they have a very sort of subjective view, not an objective view, which is what they're trying to move away from. So overall, that kind of gives you an overview of 3.0. And it's still very early stages and it will take a lot of time for organizations to get there. But I think for entrepreneurs and startups, if they take that approach now when they're starting up and they're scaling up, it becomes a lot easier for them to really develop to what the generation is now looking for.

Amardeep Parmar: 5:31

Looking at that as well. You mentioned about a huge part is treating people like humans right, and not just the process and going through that. In terms of that, understanding the individual employee, the individual human. There's obviously different personality tests and things like that. What's so acute? How do you look through that lens of, how do you try to define these characteristics and understand those people?

Rani Ahmed: 5:53

What are my sort of passionaries and it's only been in the last few years that I've actually looked into this in more detail is neuroscience and psychology and looking at those subjects and looking at their techniques and what the ideas are come forward as to how to assess individuals or how to understand the traits, their strengths, weaknesses, what motivates them and so on. There has been quite a big movement now within HR practices to start looking at okay, we know that everybody's an individual and that's what we have to kind of consider is that there's no one size fits all approach anymore and what we want to really identify is those strengths and weaknesses that we can work with those individuals, but also matching them to the right environment, to the right people, to the right managers, so that the success of them working together in that partnership is as best as possible. All too often when anybody sort of scales up you know, a new organization, etc. They don't take the time to look at individuals on that basis. It's very much a case of only on the tasks that they could be doing or that they just need to have bodies in to complete the work that needs to be covered and that sometimes leads down the line problems that can be faced when there is a clash of those different working styles or different personalities. Now, I don't say that necessarily everybody has to be the same or that you have to have a perfect match, but it's worthwhile to have an understanding from the outset, if you can, to look at, okay, who's going to be best placed to work on certain projects or certain clients you know, what qualities do they have that you know another person that potentially doesn't have that we can then transfer that knowledge across to as well. So it is a round cross collaboration and it's around identifying all of those strengths of individuals that are going to be motivated and do well. But equally, it gives everybody a bit more self-awareness. You know, I've done our personality profile testing a few years ago and it was an eye-opener. It really was. I was just very scared as to how much it really knew me and got that sort of sense of who I was as an individual. And there's quite a few out there that people can use free ones or paid ones, paid options as well but I found they have been really great at identifying for me where my perhaps are blind spots, where I potentially don't necessarily recognize I could do better in and it's helped me to develop and really focus my intentions on what I could do to improve on my performances or my relationships, because it's all about relationships at the end of the day. But I always do know that people feel a bit anxious about personality profiling or these tests. How open can they really be? Is it like horoscopes, where you're sort of pigeonholed into a certain characteristic? I mean it's helpful to have these different dynamics of different personality group pains, but I would never say that should be taken as gospel. Everybody is very different and it depends on the day that you're taking that test and that timeframe. So we always say regularly have at least a 12-minute gap between doing sort of profile testing anyway.

Amardeep Parmar: 9:55

So one thing is, like I said, like lots of people are very aware of these areas and they want to do this properly. But sometimes it can be a case of in a startup or a fast-growing company where managers might put a card, just want to get stuff done, like why do I need to care about this personality test? And from a zoomed out perspective, you can say, okay, this is the best way to do it. How do you get people on board so they pay attention to these tests and these personality profiling and actually change the behavior based on it? So if somebody, let's say somebody works best when somebody communicates in a certain way, how do you try to ensure that the people who are in charge actually use that as a person? I'll call that's great information. I'm gonna go and do the things I want to do.

Rani Ahmed: 10:39

It's a tough one. Sometimes there's people that are going to be more on board with these sort of things than others and it is really it's working with those that have got that sense of with any new project or new idea that you're trying to roll out is do an appilot with a group that have a good sense of commitment towards it and input towards it. So, buying from those senior people that understand the reasons why to utilize it and the way that we utilize it is that we assess those individuals sort of profiling, because it gives you sort of an idea of what manager style they prefer or what management style they prefer to delegate to others, and really giving an idea and saying, spotting any issues or strengths in those particular traits that we're able to then say, okay, this is what's most important to this individual, so it could be around. They like to have more regular communication, so they'd like to be up to date on a bi-weekly process or everyday process. It can be whatever that individual requires. But also it could be a case of I'd rather be given an outline of instructions and just leave me to it, and then I'm best working in that way rather than being micromanaged on every sort of aspect of that role. So it can really give a direction for those that are working together on a frequent basis to say, okay, this is the management style that's being reduced, that have been imported. Let's try and see, okay, is that in line with how you manage them, is that in line with how you work with them? And if it isn't, let's try something new and try it out and see if that makes a difference. So it is regularly checking in with those people to see how much of a difference that has made and then obviously assessing and then communicating more widely to perhaps the more skeptical people around the benefits of utilizing this. I mean, one of the things we did initially was that, before we announced it or released it to anybody in the firm, we got all the senior leaders to do the personality profiling tests and they all found it really helpful because it just gave them not only a perspective of how they view themselves but how others may view them. So you know, it's really sort of interesting that some found it really insightful and thought this has been really helpful and it's helped to change how they manage people or how they actually communicate in the business, because that's effectively the benefits of any of these sorts of tests that is helping with their relationships and communication primarily.

Amardeep Parmar: 13:41

Hey everyone. We hope you're enjoying this episode. So far. Quick note from our sponsors who make this all possible, from first time founders to the bonds that back them. Innovation needs different. HSBC Innovation Banking is proud to accelerate growth for tech and life science businesses, creating meaningful connections and opening up a world of opportunity for entrepreneurs and investors alike. Discover more at hsbcinnovationbankingcom. Back to the show. So personality profile is one area of this right In terms of HR 3.0. And obviously you work in different types of HR teams and it's evolving over time as well. What are some of the more recent changes maybe you've made in the way that you look at HR that have really been beneficial, and maybe people listening today could try out those methods too, as well as, say, personality profiliing, and really make a difference to their companies and the way that their teams are being run.

Rani Ahmed: 14:35

I think definitely having more regular feedback sessions, so employee engagement surveys. They used to be just once a year and they would always be an overview. I think doing more regular poll surveys have been really helpful in that sense to get real time feedback from people and gaining their input onto the strategic direction that we wanna move towards. Other than that, I think it's really been helpful for HR team members to take that more informed approach, to become a bit more strategic and be more analytical. I very much review over all of our systems or the reports, et cetera, that we generate and looking at those sorts of trends that we think potentially could be causing any issues or that we need to look into a bit more detail, and also those kind of market reviews, and I regularly speak to a number of other market leaders to make sure that we're aligned, we're on the same track and that we're all moving in the right direction.

Amardeep Parmar: 15:50

So it was interesting as well to have chosen, Joelson works with so many different startups and they said you work with different market leaders and you're going to not only see HR in your own firm, but also what other people are doing and what's working and what isn't. What are some of the mistakes you think a lot of people make when they look at HR, especially in the early stages of trying to scale up? Where you can help them avoid it today, what are some of the things you want them to hear so that they don't make the mistakes that you're seeing on the screen? Why are you doing that?

Rani Ahmed: 16:20

I haven't seen many, I have to say, where people are not getting it right. I think in today's day and age in terms of HR professionals, there's quite a few that have taken on board this new version of HR the 3.0, coming on board. I think there is a lot of free information out there from market leaders or consultancy groups that are out there to provide that assistance. But I think one of the things I would say is don't try and do it all by yourself. Get that sort of expert advice and expertise wherever possible, because it can be overwhelming. As we mentioned before, HR, it seems to be a catchall for everything. I think it is really important to put that investment towards people to make sure that there is the right resource for what the all strategic aims are. If it's just about you want somebody to do the operational side of things and that's all you're interested in at that time, then you need to bring on somebody who is just on that mindset of being able to be a solid, dependable person to do the operational sides and keep things moving. But if you're thinking about strategically, you want to be that kind of role model employer and thinking ahead, then you do need to think about bringing on somebody in HR that is able to make those decisions and giving the mandate to them to be on the leadership teams and to be on the forums where they can make that difference.

Amardeep Parmar: 18:03

So, before we move on to our quick fire questions, is there anything that you really want to cover that we haven't covered yet, that you think is going to help the audience?

Rani Ahmed: 18:10

Remembering HR's human too. I think it's a tough one. I do understand it when people talk about HR and the policies and procedures and so on, and I think what helps me in my business is for people to understand that there is a person that's dealing with this in the background and they are the the kind of the relationship between senior managers, the business and the people and all too often they may not necessarily see what's going on in the background where HR is really trying to make a difference and deliver on changes, but may not necessarily see them coming through or filtering through quickly enough or at the level that people are potentially asking for.

Amardeep Parmar: 19:08

Is there anything that you're really excited about yourself to try to implement in the future that maybe you haven't done yet, or in terms of the HR space, where obviously there's so much like you said exciting neuroscience coming through, where maybe you haven't had a chance to test it yet, but you're like, ah, I'm looking forward to trying to introduce that in the future. What's exciting for you at the moment in your role, that you're looking forward to? That's keeping you waking up in the morning and being excited for your job.

Rani Ahmed: 19:34

Working with yourselves, actually, in terms of working with different networks and, you know, bringing that connection to wherever possible. I think you know I have seen in industries and in the legal practice for a long time there is, you know, those kind of very established formats of networking etc. Which doesn't always necessarily translate as well for underrepresented groups. So I'm very much, you know, keen on building those connections for groups and finding, you know, those potential network partners that are out of the ordinary. So, yes, that's what I'm excited to do and definitely keeping you know the people engaged and excited about all of these different opportunities.

Amardeep Parmar: 20:26

Awesome. So thanks so much for everything so far. We're going to move on to the quick fire questions now. So first one is who are three British Asians that you think are doing incredible work? They love to spotlight and the audience should be paying attention to.

Rani Ahmed: 20:40

My three co founders are Jainna Bhalla, she is a co-founder of a network group called the Brown Girl League and she is also a just recently is qualified through her apprenticeship and has been recognised and awarded on this. I came about the Brown Girl League through LinkedIn and I'm just amazed at what the co-founders have been able to do, and Jainna in particular, I think, has been fantastic at building that profile for professional Asian women from all different backgrounds, et cetera. That helps them to have that network, those conversations with role models and with leaders as well. My second is I know this may I mean I completely fangirl about this but Raj Kaur Khaira, because I think she's doing an amazing job again, not only as a co-founder herself but all of the extra stuff with the diversity, initiatives and obviously thinking about how to give back to the Asian community in different ways. So I would definitely reach out to them. And Simmy Dhillon, again, is a contact actually that's come through your network. I've been following him a little while on LinkedIn too and I just think he's just got such an authentic message and style of how he is building his business and how his inspiration and his purpose, of why he does what he does, and he's really very engaging. So I think again, that is really interesting to see and I definitely think that it's been a great role model and I definitely would shout that them out too.

Amardeep Parmar: 22:41

So next quick fire question is how can people find out more about you, find out more about Joelson and getting touch?

Rani Ahmed: 22:49

Yeah, sure, so find out more about me. I'm on LinkedIn. I don't have my own website, but, in terms of Joelson, we are a commercial law firm based in the West End, but we do work with some fantastic clients and we have some fantastic people that work for us. It's something that I really enjoyed working here to build and develop the firm that we are now and, yes, we're really proud of what we've achieved so far.

Amardeep Parmar: 23:22

And then next question is how can the audience help you? So people listening right now is a way that they can help you, help Joelson or contribute in some way.

Rani Ahmed: 23:31

So at Joelson's we're really proud of becoming a B Corp. We became a B Corp certified organization last year and one of our commitments is really to work with other B Corps and to also help other companies and organizations to move on to that journey to become B Corp certified themselves. So one of the things that we'd love to do is to help other organizations around that, talking about their journeys and potentially looking at as to how we can potentially provide assistance with that process too. But also from a personal perspective, I love to have networks of different groups of people that may find this message aligns with them that I'd be happy to have them reach out.

Amardeep Parmar: 24:20

So thank you so much for coming on today. Have you got any final words to audience?

Rani Ahmed: 24:24

Be true to yourselves. I think that's one of the things that I would say is learn what your passion is, what your purpose is, and definitely pursue it with all your energy and all your might, Because I think once you find something that you're really, really passionate about, it becomes an easier way of dealing with things. So definitely learn what's important to you.

Amardeep Parmar: 24:50

Thank you for watching. Don't forget to subscribe. See you next time.

‍

‍