How To Master Global Expansion

Puja DeGamia : 0:00

In terms of patterns that I see in terms of, I guess, fundraising. Typically around that series B plus stage is when I see people are really willing to be like we now have the ground and footing to look at other markets and do it properly, not just one off, do it well.

‍Amardeep Parmar: 0:21

Today we're talking about how to expand and scale into international markets. We're looking at the considerations to enter a new market, building and sustaining relationships in that market, how to create a brand presence there, and then also value-based pricing for foreign markets. We have with us our expert to help us on this journey, Puja Degamia, who's the Head of Strategic Partnerships at Tech Nation, part of the Founders Forum group. She also previously held high-level roles at the Economist and Darktrace. I hope you enjoy this episode. I'm Amar from the BAE HQ and this podcast is powered by HSBC Innovation Banking. Hi Pooja. So today we're talking all about how to expand internationally and to scale into international markets, and I think it's something which is on a lot of people's minds, and what factors should they consider when they're thinking about when's the right time to enter a new market or to go beyond their domestic limitations?

Puja DeGamia : 1:26

It's something that I love kind of exploring with different businesses, different business models, different products. I think there's never and the truth is to be fair, there's never, there's not one right answer to this question. It really is dependent on what. Are you selling? A product or a service? If it's, you know, obviously a more agile product like an AI software, Saas based product you might be able to scale internationally from from day one. You might not even have one key target market, do you know what I mean versus a service or a very niche tech product in a niche market like climate tech, for example, which is more developed, perhaps arguably, in the West, in the UK and Europe, a bit more than places in Southeast Asia and such? So I would say there's no right answer to it. Depends on the resources, the capabilities, both financially and not. In terms of patterns that I see in terms of, I guess, fundraising.

Puja DeGamia : 2:18

Typically around that series B plus stage is when I see people are really willing to be like we now have the ground and footing to look at other markets and do it properly, not just one off, do it well and we've done our homework. We've done. We know that we have appetite in this market. We know that we've had inbound inquiries from this market and if there is that kind of consumer interest already, and naturally it's probably a good way to start going. Or alternatively, I know that these are trends in the following markets. We've done our market research and the facts line up and maybe now is a good time. So yeah, again, no right answer. Series B plus is probably a safe time to do it. But kind of weigh up resources both financially, capability wise, team wise. All of those things I think are important to bring into consideration when doing that.

Amardeep Parmar: 3:20

As you mentioned there, depending on the type of product. If it's a SaaS product, for example, maybe it's easier, or if it's a local thing, maybe it's easier to expand internationally. But let's say, for those people who do have high-cost products, where there's a little investment involved from those companies and they're also going to need to establish a brand in another country to gain some kind of of momentum, what kind of things should people be thinking about before they even launch, about how to get the right kind of ideas about that market? And is it okay to just plug and drop, like, okay, this is what we do in the uk, let's go in france now. Or what kind of things should we be doing before making those kind of steps?

Puja DeGamia : 4:00

I guess, things that I've learned from, from I guess I can speak from a partnership, sales, business development perspective, while I've had the good fortune of being able to explore these things and the roles that I've done, I guess, at tech startups and also big multinational companies and being like I just read this in the news about this company or this market and it's kind of out of my remit and we don't technically do that, but why don't I just reach out and see if they'd be happy to have a conversation? So very simple things like even just you know, reaching out to stakeholders or companies, or and by companies I mean one's client base, who you think they would be, you know who would buy your product or service. Reach out, have a chat. Is this something that you would be interested in? Is this a value to you? Or have a chat about their priorities in terms of what are your key priorities as a business?

Puja DeGamia : 4:58

Fundamentally, if you're trying to do X, Y and Z and our product, either directly or indirectly, helps with those things again, when I say product, product or service in terms of connecting people, whatever it is, then it's worth having a conversation or moving forward in some way or the other. Um, and I guess commercially it may be different than how you're functioning and, I guess, your prime market, but it's it sets kind of the ground and foundation for for wider partnerships, for wider relationships and and potential business. I think some of the best examples that I know you know, I guess, thinking back to my time in cybersecurity, the markets that we expanded to just started by having conversations from the UK and the Middle East in various parts of the market in Asia and Vietnam. You know we wouldn't necessarily always think at that time that they were mature markets for the type of AI solution that we were talking about, but there was appetite and we started slowly and then we're able to scale just from having conversations and just testing the waters a little bit.

Amardeep Parmar: 6:07

During this process, obviously. So I think the idea of world domination is quite common in founders mind yeah, it's gonna work here and it's gonna work everywhere else. Love it. What's been some of the challenges that you came across when you were doing this kind of conversations that maybe you didn't expect were a bit harder than you first thought they would be?

Puja DeGamia : 6:24

Yeah, I think that's a great question. I think it's twofold. One, sometimes you think that the people, when you reach out or have a one-liner or you send you, know an overview or attach a few resources, that they know who you are and know what you're talking about. But that value is not always conveyed quickly, and so there's always, in my experience, there's always a bit of trial and error that goes into into the way that you do approach that aspect. And then secondly, culturally, I think I mean I don't know if this is an interesting thing, but I find, as a young, relatively young woman reaching out to key stakeholders and senior stakeholders which fortunately or unfortunately in my field of work always tends to be way older men . There was also that level of like, oh, like she's younger, you know. I don't know if I really want to talk to her. What does she know, you know, about this product?

Puja DeGamia : 7:28

So that has always been a challenge for me, where it's like when we've tested that situation where perhaps a senior man were to go and reach out and maybe say the same thing, at least they'd maybe get a response as well. So there is something said about kind of bringing in the right stakeholders at the right time. But also I think that's just been a challenge that, as I've gotten older, perhaps even in my career, has helped. It's gotten better, I would say, it hasn't, you know it's, but it's still a challenge that I see, especially in different markets. You know whether that be, I guess, traditional markets typically, where it's very male dominated at the business table and where that's always been a bit of a challenge for me, but it's.

Puja DeGamia : 8:15

I guess the main thing would be understanding what they would know about your business or your product or your solution, doing your homework on what, who you're reaching out to, whether that be a company or a person, and what they would find valuable and feeding that into your initial outreach that they they're gonna have five seconds to be like, yes, this is this would be a value to me, or no. They would have made their mind up pretty quickly to be, to be honest, right, so avoid I personally tend to avoid the mass outreach for the sake of it and really focus on what would be valuable to these people, to these companies, and focus on that. And that's kind of when the challenges slow down a little when you're speaking on that value level, no matter what people want to speak to you.

Amardeep Parmar: 9:10

And if we look at establishing the brand presence, as you talked about building the relationships, building these partnerships across the world, and obviously that's you reaching out to people, right, how can you also create a brand presence where then you get more people reaching out to you and want to be like I want to work with you guys, I want to get your product? Have you been able to do that in international markets?

Puja DeGamia : 9:29

Yeah, I think it's. I mean, social media has obviously been, um been incredibly helpful for the world in that, in that sense, um, and it is about being constant, a constant stream of thought leadership content that you think really caters to the mission, the values that you're trying to solve, fundamentally, because people will do their homework as well on you, right, when you reach out to them, what are they posting about? What are they talking about? I think that, as myself, if I see something that's truly like this is essentially what we're trying to do, let me talk about it, let me amplify that on my, on whatever network that I have, whether that be, you know, Linkedin, even your own personal network, I wouldn't and I'm talking people to people when you're out at dinner or you're, you know, I wouldn't, I would never discount that, because people talk to people, who talk to people, which I'm sure you would. You, of all, people would know this right, and eventually, someday, someone will give you a call and be like, hey, I heard about this thing through, this person would love to hear about it.

Puja DeGamia : 10:40

So, yeah, I guess the power of network there is probably the main thing, but doing it with the sense of really focusing on again, what are you trying to solve for this person? What's valuable to these people? What are the trends in the world that people are looking at right now that you can talk about? That your service, your products, your company is also doing, and then you'll notice that natural outreach that comes, I have seen, the more present you are, the more, I guess, online, but also in person, the more inbound you are likely to get in terms of people coming to you, um, which I don't think is rocket science, but it's also, I guess, the right balance of doing it without hard selling, without being in everyone's face all the time. It is a lot of it is to do with listening and being aware of trends, markets, what people want, um, and kind of purposefully value, creating value, I guess. well.

Amardeep Parmar: 11:49

Yeah, we mentioned there as so so many of the things that I've done that are somewhat cool have come from the most random beginnings. So one example is I went to Cambodia. I talked to a random person in the museum because they're also like, look indian. And then seven years later that person got me a talk to at sky south haitian heritage month, right. So I didn't talk to them for that reason, but because you're just talking to people and learning people different environments, you never know what that could lead to one day. And even if they didn't really have, I had a nice conversation right and you mentioned there as well about being in person, especially with international markets.

Amardeep Parmar: 12:26

That's often something good people are trying to work out like how much do we need boots on the ground? Can we do all virtually? Can we do all online and reach out to people, or do we need to be going to conferences? Do we need to be going to events, these places? How have you found that balance? So if you've got a bigger sample size as well from your work at tech nation, you can see how people are trying to scale there. Have you found that balance? So what tips do you have for people in the audience maybe are thinking about that dilemma?

Puja DeGamia : 12:53

Yeah, it's an interesting question and I can probably approach this from my own personal view, which is it's so important to understand our market. There's nothing that grinds my gears more than a company who's trying to duplicate something that worked in, let's say, European or European or Western, I guess, american companies, and then copy and paste that to a market like India or China or, you know, Vietnam or Australia or New Zealand. It doesn't work. People buy from people, right? So you really want to understand and tailor your not only, I guess, pricing is one thing, I guess that's also do your market research. What is the appetite to spend at the ability that they are on one side of the world to the other, but also in terms of companies, founders and their teams.

Puja DeGamia : 13:56

What is the approach that you need to take? Does a direct approach necessarily work in a market like Japan or Korea or Australia even, I'm in my you know they're very different markets to the UK, for example, where you're you know it's a little there's an aspect of relationship building that's needed. You're not necessarily going to have, especially in in tech sales, when they look for three week to three month conversion period. That might not always happen in a new market. That's not how, culturally, things happen. You need to build trust, you need to build an aspect of ROI, and that takes time. So, yes, I guess you can't discount a physical and-person presence. So it there is investment and value in having, especially if it's a market that you don't know. There is investment and value in having boots on the ground, doing a bit of scoping in the market, going to an event that's primarily known in that region, so you can kind of test the waters and and not even just see that what.

Puja DeGamia : 15:01

What is the appetite to to expand into this market? How does things work? Do we have the ability to do this? What more do we need? You know, um, and kind of have a checkbox of questions that you answer while you're doing that um, but yeah, there is. I think the bottom line is under it's. It's really not one size fits all. No matter what your product is, even with market um, there's a reason why you have global teams everywhere where you can. How do you tailor what people want in that market, um, you know? And how do we change pricing? Do we need to be more flexible with this? If we price it at this, we'll never even enter that market, you know. So what is that sweet spot? Yeah, I hope that answers your question. I think I I digress

Amardeep Parmar: 15:45

I'd love you to just dive into a bit more into the value-based pricing that you mentioned. So we hope you're enjoying the episode so far. We just want to give a quick shout out to our headline partners, HSBC Innovation Banking. One of the biggest challenges for so many startups is finding the right bank to support them, because you might start off and try to use a traditional bank, but they don't understand what you're doing. You're just talking to an AI assistant or you're talking to somebody who doesn't really understand what it is you've been trying to do. HSBC have got the team they've built out over years to make sure they understand what you're doing. They've got the deep sector expertise and they can help connect you with the right people to make your dreams come true. So if you want to learn more, check out hsbcinnovationbanking. com.

Amardeep Parmar: 16:28

When you're going to a new market, I think the classic thing people might do, for example, is just literally convert it right. So it's 10 pounds in the UK. So, okay, it's basically 10 euros in Europe. But, like I said, the value creation is different. Also, the brand strength is different as well. Right Is that you might be able to charge a premium price here, whereas in France, maybe they already love your competitor and they're not going to be willing to pay that premium. So could you dive a bit more in detail into that value-based pricing system?

Puja DeGamia : 16:53

Yeah, I guess the way that I would see it is probably coming back to those fundamental points that I mentioned. And even if we think of it like take out you know I'm not trying to preach here, right, I mean, I'm not the biggest expert in this but even think of it as a consumer, and it ultimately comes back to what are they willing to pay for your service, or what is the appetite for their value, for what you're trying to provide for them? If it's, if yeah, like you said, if there's a lot of competitors and they're willing to test the waters but not willing to, you know, completely jump, then you're going to have to adjust your pricing in that market, and I think this goes for service services as well. I mean, even you know, I guess, where I am now with with tech nation, you know, and you're expanding in our, in our plan for global domination, or world domination, like you said. That comes with with being sensitive to, to the value that needs to be proved and trust that needs to be built in new markets. Just because it works in one and everyone knows you here, it doesn't mean it's going to be the same over there. So I guess, quantifying the value you know and I said this before right, you'll see that with the big players in the market as well, Linkedin in one market is not priced the same as it is in another market because the appetite is different.

Puja DeGamia : 18:21

You know Netflix probably the same what they're willing to pay for over here because it's such a staple. There may be several local alternatives in a market like India where they're like nevermind, I don't need this anymore, you know. So the prices are different or, alternatively, higher. So build that trust, then you can kind of commercially increase that. But I think the value is just essentially, what is the market that you're going into, how willing and how valuable do they think you are, and humbling yourself as a business accordingly, or being like no, actually we can. We can start asking what our value is, which is this, because we can quantify it with the ROI of XYZ for our audience. You know what I mean. So, yeah, I would say, really not rocket science, just being perceptive about, about where your consumer market sits and what they're willing, how valuable they think your service or product is.

Amardeep Parmar: 19:32

So obviously once you've broken into a country right and you seem to have built the trust up. You've got some consumers using your product. Now it's not just about obviously breaking in, but it's how do you maintain that right? How do you make sure you keep the relationship strong and not become complacent? So how do you try and keep an eye on that too? Because obviously there's going to be the nature of, okay, let's go into our next place, next place, next place, but then you might pop the ball on somebody you entered earlier. What kind of things do you think boundaries, do you think about there, to make sure that they do maintain those relationships and that brand strength?

Puja DeGamia : 19:59

Yeah, that's a great question. It's something that I definitely think about all the time. I spend a good amount of time in customer success, which I guess ultimately that's what this is, right. It's maintaining relationships. No one likes to feel like you've sold to them and then bye, you've left and forgotten about them and you've got what you wanted, and no one as a human likes to feel that way. Forget even a business, even friendships or relationships. If you think it's off of one thing, it's never. No one loves that feeling. It's very transparent, you can see it right.

Puja DeGamia : 20:38

So it is about, and I think it starts from the bottom up. So it's, if you can build a relationship about what are your priorities? These are the values that we. This is what you find valuable. Fundamentally, this is what we can provide. This is what. These are the solutions that we provide to your three problems. I'm using three as a number. They may be more, there may be less, but these are my top three priorities and we fix that.

Puja DeGamia : 21:04

So, fundamentally, that relationship and that value has already been based pre-existing partnership, and I think that's important because that's kind of your guiding light, like, ultimately, there is value there and there's investment from both sides to maintain that value and that partnership. And then it's really about putting in the time. You know, founders must rely on their teams. Here. It's not a one man, one woman job. It takes the village. But in simple terms, having dedicated resource to make sure your team is being looked after, and whether that be through people and a combination of AI and people even I think that's an interesting. Obviously, people are leveraging that as a way to gain intel in terms of what consumers find valuable, in terms of what your partners find valuable. But you can't discount that people-to-people check-in.

Puja DeGamia : 22:07

Have a check-in. Obviously, big businesses do this in the form of a quarterly business review and they do that more formally to make sure that the value is being quantified. New challenges are being brought up to light. What's working, what's not, what do we need to change things like that? But essentially, that is what it is have a check-in, make sure things are being you're delivering on the value that you promised.

Puja DeGamia : 22:34

I think that's something that, as a partnerships person, I'm very conscious about. We've said this, we're going to do this. If we deliver this, the growth for both sides will naturally come, because they see the value they know that you've put in the time. They know you can do what you say, and then the investment will naturally get bigger because they're like great, now we can do a bit more and justify more ROI to the business on our end.

Puja DeGamia : 23:03

So, having a check in, having frank conversations about what, honestly, what could I have done better if this didn't work? Taking ownership of it and then fixing it if that is the case, but having that conversation of is this what you did? You get everything that you wanted to get out of this? And if the answer is no, what more could we be doing? And then I think, if you're having those honest conversations, you could even turn things around in my personal experience in terms of partnerships that were maybe even about to be lost commercially. But even just putting in that time to show we're willing to fix things, that also, I think, completely changes changes, I guess, perceptions in terms of how you're willing to go about mutually moving towards success.

Amardeep Parmar: 23:58

So I think a lot of things you mentioned say if my episode is going to help so many people listening. But before you go into a quick fire questions anything we haven't mentioned about scaling internationally that you'd love to bring up and share with the audience, any tips or tricks that maybe haven't come to any of the questions yet.

Puja DeGamia : 24:13

No, I think I've. I think I pretty much mentioned. I guess the key thing is is just yeah, know, know what you're going into. So do do your homework, ask questions, talk to people that you know in the market you know the more, the more you know, the more you have in your armor to kind of build and protect yourself from. I guess you know, build in terms of success and then protect yourself in terms of threats or challenges that you foresee in a market that's not your home ground, if you will, you know, so be on the ground.

Puja DeGamia : 24:49

I personally am a big fan of that, and the rewards may not. I think it's also important to remember just because the rewards don't come immediately doesn't mean that groundwork wasn't valuable. It takes time. Relationships, partnerships, building trust in a market takes time. But you have to start somewhere. You know you can't. I think oftentimes I've definitely seen in the past businesses are like well, we did a trip and we didn't close any deals, so we're never going back there. It didn't work. Or, you know, we went in with our business model of doing a trial for three weeks and then they didn't buy after. So I'm not sure what we're doing wrong, but maybe it's because in that market it takes longer than three weeks. It takes three months, six months even, but you're there and so constantly put in the work I wouldn't be dissuaded from. You know, as long as you've done your kind of background, market research and the general numbers make sense in terms of market size, in terms of value perception, don't be dissuaded by the fact that things don't convert immediately. Yeah, that's pretty much it.

Amardeep Parmar: 25:56

You mentioned there about knowing what you're going into, so can you tell us as well, like, what are you going into? What's the future hold for you?

Puja DeGamia : 26:02

Oh my God. So it's an exciting time. I'm really excited about Tech Nation and you know it's kind of revamped with Founders Forum Group, which I know is very well known in this market but also around the world. I think Tech Nation has left an amazing legacy and now that it's in under the umbrella of the Founders Forum universe, as we like to call it, it allows us to really scale globally which is great and go above and beyond the UK and also take great entrepreneurs within the UK that we have in our ecosystem and hopefully allow them to scale around the world, which is great.

Puja DeGamia : 26:44

We've just launched our Future 50 cohort, which we're really excited about. So they're a great group of 25 plus Series B, plus founders and companies. There's 25 of them. They've raised 1.34 billion, I think, between all of them and they're also really looking. They're at that stage where they're looking to grow and scale and I'm excited to kind of spend more time with them in the coming few months and, yeah, be a part of their journey in some small way or the other, through kind of the great things that tech nation in general, um, are doing.

Amardeep Parmar: 27:23

All sounds amazing, so you're going to have to move on to quick five questions now. First one. So first one, nice and easy, is who are three British Asians you think are doing incredible work and you'd love to shout out for audience to pay attention?

Puja DeGamia : 27:36

Interesting. So, uh, I'll start with two artists that I just find artists, um, some of the coolest and most savvy entrepreneurs in a way, you know, to get you know attention in terms of the great work that they're doing, they have to be entrepreneurial in their ways. Um, so shout out to Spicy Kraut. Lisa Lutgen, uh, who has amazing art. If you haven't, you know, seen her stuff, definitely check it out. Um, I love that. It's so asian inspired and very empowering for women, especially asian women, um, and it's just cool art that I want to like hang up, you know, in my living room. I'm gonna get her to commission a piece for me one day. I always keep telling her that, so that's why I was leveraged.

Amardeep Parmar: 28:22

I shouted you out you should, you should commission a piece for me yeah.

Puja DeGamia : 28:27

I really honestly, I really should, that should.I was like that's your, that's your, your little piece, um, no, but, but another one is Shumaiya Khan, also very, very great and I'll give you the details to give out but really, really great artwork. I think she's like looking to get a gallery soon and have more presence in the market, but they both do great pop-ups all around London and I would just love to love to see them succeed more and more. Um, but that's really cool. Um, I guess I'll. I'll group them as one, uh, uh, even though they're two different people.

Puja DeGamia : 29:06

Yeah, a bit of bit of cheating, but shout out to my art, my art crew. Um, you know, I got, I got a shout out Natasha Takhar from from Tech Nation, who you know the reason why I know you. So, no, I'm just shout out because she's our global talent lead at Tech Nation, kind of championing the global talent program, especially the global talent visa program. That Tech Nation does. But it's mainly just she's so passionate about bringing asian talents to the uk in terms of work, but also in terms of living and having a longer term, establishing a great life here, um, so shout out to her.

Puja DeGamia : 29:46

My girl, uh, um. And thirdly, I guess, Mridula from Peppy Health um, who's part of our Future 50. Really excited to spend more time with her, but I shout out just because it's a great business model that she has and especially catering to things like fertility and women's health and I guess connecting to kind of real health experts with with an AI platform is is just a cool model, so shout out to her.

Amardeep Parmar: 30:23

So awesome shout outs there. Next one is if people want to know about you or know more about Technation, where should they go to?

Puja DeGamia : 30:29

Come to me, reach out. I don't, I don't bite, yeah, I mean we. We have several programs across Tech Nation that we're doing lots of growth programs that help kind of early stage seed Series A, series B plus startups grow and kind of accelerate to where they need to be. We have a program for climate tech, for underrepresented founders, which we're really passionate about, future 50, of course, we have a rising stars pitch competition. Applications are still open. The finalists get to pitch at London Tech Week, which is really exciting and really also excited to mention, I think worth talking about. We're launching a program called Creo, which is for focused on disabled founders or founders that are really looking to champion technologies that help people with disabilities. And looking to build that out more and really excited to. It's a great community. We just launched a couple of weeks ago, um, and, yeah, worth knowing. But yeah, feel free to reach out to me or anyone at Tech Nation. We're, we're online, um, if you want to know more, be a part of, you know the the program or be a partner as well to kind of help scale these incredible founders that we have in our ecosystem.

Amardeep Parmar: 31:55

Is there anything you need help with right now yourself like that? Somebody that audience listened right now might be able to reach out and help you with.

Puja DeGamia : 32:02

That's a great question. I think it's. It's, I guess, professionally it would really be meeting some great companies that are looking to to join the mission and help startups scale, and looking to genuinely have valuable conversations. If that's like their mission as a business, I would love to speak to them and just get to know more and, you know, find out how we could support them. It's, I think oftentimes it's they're out there and you just don't know, and so if I'm not reaching out to them, feel free to reach out to me, because I just love a conversation and see how I can help in whatever little way possible.

Amardeep Parmar: 32:46

So thank you so much for coming on today. Have you got any final words to the audience?

Puja DeGamia : 32:51

No, just shout out to the BAE audience. What a great community. I hope I get to meet a lot more. I hope I get to meet a lot more of you. You need to sort out like a community event, Amar for all of us to meet at some point.

Amardeep Parmar: 33:05

Thank you for watching. Don't forget to subscribe. See you next time.

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